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40-60 High Wall ammo

pdog72
Hey guys, I finally got some cartridges for my Winchester 40-60 WCF High Wall that I spoke about in an earlier post. Ten-X 260gr RNFP. Now the bad news - They won't go all the way in the chamber. Some of them stop about 1/8" short and others are more like 3/8" short. I checked an entire box of twenty and there isn't much consistency. I then checked the dimensions versus data from my "Cartridges of the World" book. The book shows a .404 bullet and a neck dia. of about .425, but the rounds I have are closer to .405 or .406 bullets with a neck dia. of around .428. The other dimensions were close or less than the tolerances given in the book. I got online and Ten-X and several other suppliers are only offering cartridges with a .406 bullet. I'm guessing this is why the ones I bought would not fit, as the bullet may be oversized.

Has anyone else had this problem, or am I missing something? Eventually, I might reload my own, but I just wanted to buy a box to get started. We did Borescope the chamber down at my local sports store and found nothing wrong. Any ideas??

No, I have not had a chamber cast done yet, but had considered that it might be the only true answer. I guess I was wrong to assume that factory ammo labeled 40-60 wcf would fit in my rifle labeled 40-60 wcf. Hmmmmm, sometimes logic and common sense doesn't pan out.
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Comments

7 comments

Date Votes
  • Tailgunner1954
    You might be missing something.
    The following dimensions are taken from a single (original) sample of each cartridge (note that lead bullets may become degraded over time)

    40-60 WCF
    Bullet .393 Case length 1.848 OAL 2.154 Mouth Dia .421
    40-60 Marlin/Colt
    Bullet .404 Case length 2.060 OAL 2.461 Mouth Dia .424

    Have you done a chamber cast?
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  • Hawk Carse
    Your .40-60 Ten-X is probably made to suit the reproduction 1876s coming in now, and is not right for a real period .40-60 WCF.

    You could contact Buffalo Arms. Their .40-60 has .406 bullets, too, but might have thinner necks. They list smokeless for reproductions and black powder for "obsolete" use.

    Otherwise, the only option is to handload with small enough dies and bullets.
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  • Bert H.
    Pdog,

    Slug your bore, and do the chamber cast before doing anything else.
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  • gartman
    If the brass was made from necked-down 45-70 brass the metal in the neck may be a little thick and need inside turning. This is of no help to you with the loaded factory ammo. If your chamber cast is correct, and I think it will be, the ammo needs to go back.
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  • pdog72
    Ok Bert, I slugged the bore with a lead ball and am coming up with .406 where the rifling is and .401 where the lands contact. Would I call that a .406 bore? I will see if I can get a chamber cast done this week. Does this shed any light on the subject or will the chamber cast tell the tale?

    OK Bert, back to where I left off.........We took apart one of the ten-x cartridges, ran it through my sizing die, then tried it in my rifle. Bingo, it slid right in. Next we re-seated the original bullet, and NO-GO, would'nt fit again. Then a friend and I got the chamber cast done. The bore measurements are identical to the slug I ran through, as suspected. The neck diameter is .428
    Here's the two problems that are obvious:
    1. The empty case fits fine, but after seating the .406 bullet, it makes the neck diameter about .430, (.002 too big)
    2. The chamber cast shows that the rifling comes all the way back to the end of the chamber. There is absolutely no throat in the barrel. That being said, it seems I would need a .401 bullet so it would'nt hit the lands when you chamber it. Is this normal in a High Wall barrel, no throat?

    We later seated the bullet way in, to make sure it tapered straight out of the case, so there was no contact with the lands. still no go with the oversized neck of the cartridge. Assuming I could find a .401 bullet, and it actually chambered, would it shoot decent, considering the groove diameter of the barrel is .406?
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  • Hawk Carse
    No, you call it a .406" groove, the bore diameter is .401"

    A lot of these old guns depended on an undersize bullet being "bumped up" by the sudden pressure surge of black powder. Smokeless demands groove diameter bullets or a bit larger, but the chamber neck on the rifle might not be big enough for that.
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  • Bert H.
    A bore diameter of just .401 is exceptionally tight for a 40-60 W.C.F.

    Check the chamber.

    Edit: Ok, it appears that the chamber is a bit on the tight side. You do need to shoot .406 bullets. You have two options to correct the problem;

    1. Have the chamber reamed a few thousandths.

    2. Ream the inside of each cartridge case .001

    Yes, it is normal for the rifling to begin at the bitter end of the chamber.
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