Manufrance Dueling Pistols
A friend of my father in-laws was just given dueling pistols produced by Manufrance prior to the end of World War II. He cannot find any information about them or how much they are worth. The guns were "seized" by a member of the U.S. Navy off of a Japanese Black Market Cargo Vessel in the Pacific sometime in 1944 or 1945.
The guns are over a foot in length, the barrels are rifled, and have a circular guard cover (like you would see on a sword)in front of the trigger. The markings on the top of the barrel are "Manufacture Francaise d'Armes & Cycles de Saint-Etienne." Also on the barrel of one of the guns is a fraction marking 1/43, and 2/43 on the other gun. On the handle grip of the gun the number 3030 appears.
Not sure what type of ammo it takes, but it is something between 41 and 44 caliber. 41 caliber went in, but it would not seat. It was a little long. 44 caliber would not fit.
Any information on these pistols would be appreciated.
The guns are over a foot in length, the barrels are rifled, and have a circular guard cover (like you would see on a sword)in front of the trigger. The markings on the top of the barrel are "Manufacture Francaise d'Armes & Cycles de Saint-Etienne." Also on the barrel of one of the guns is a fraction marking 1/43, and 2/43 on the other gun. On the handle grip of the gun the number 3030 appears.
Not sure what type of ammo it takes, but it is something between 41 and 44 caliber. 41 caliber went in, but it would not seat. It was a little long. 44 caliber would not fit.
Any information on these pistols would be appreciated.
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Need quality photos for accurate identification and valuation.
Instructions for posting photos at this link.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2592940 -
The guards make it sound like you have pistols meant for wax bullet dueling. The Gastinne Renette Galleries had facilities for members to put on a heavy duster and fencing mask, then "duel" with such single shot pistols firing a wax ball with primer only. Kind of an early version of paintball. The guards protect you from getting a wax ball on the knuckles or up your sleeve.
The ones I have seen and read about were .44 Russian or Special. Sounds like yours might be 11mm French.
How they got into Japanese waters in WWII would be an interesting story "if guns could talk."0 -
Are they anything like this? http://www.horstheld.com/0-dueling-training-pistols.htm Very cool pistols, wish I hadn't sold them! 0 -
Thanks to everyone who has responded. My father-in-laws friend is going to love this information. The pistols look like the pistols that Silverado posted - thank you. As for how they got to the Pacific, I imagine they were in the French colony of Indochina (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia) when the Japanese invaded. I have uploaded some pictures if anyone can put a value on them. Thank you nononsense for telling me how to upload pictures.
Here is a link to see pictures of one of the pistols: http://img46.imageshack.us/g/1203101428a.jpg/0 -
Hey,
I looked at the photos you posted on ImageShack. That is a very nice set of pistols, and they appear to be in excellent condition.
My GUESS is that the "fractions" you see stamped on the guns (1/43 and 2/43) are the guns' placement in a series. That is, 43 guns like these were made and yours are the first and second ones of that series of 43. As I said, that is my take on what those numbers mean.
Please be very, very careful about cleaning and "polishing" them up. You can DEPRECIATE their value very quickly by trying to "clean them up a little". Your best bet is to simply oil up a rag and very gently wipe them down (do not oil the wood if you can help it) and do nothing else until you know what you are doing or entrust them to someone who does know. You could also run a lightly oiled swab down the barrel (don't let it get stuck in the bore). There are others who can chime in here to give their view(s) on caring for a antique firearms.
ALSO......make sure the guns do not have powder and ball (wax or lead) loaded in them. BUT, if you don't know exactly how to go about doing this, leave the pistols alone and DO NOT put either modern primers or black powder-type percussion caps on the nipples and try to fire the weapons. This, for both human safety reasons and because of the possibility of damaging these fine old pistols. If the guns are charged ("loaded") with powder and ball, they cannot go off without the cap(s) on the nipples. So just leave them.
EDIT....EDIT....
quote:Yo, Wolf, these are breechloaders, no nipples involved.
I can't say the exact age but I had a picture of a duelist in the mask and duster in a 1910 edition book.
Yeah, okay, I suppose I didn't read the post/review the photos closely enough. However, my point was that care should be taken with these unusual old pistols that appear to be in excellent condition.
My take,
Wolf.0 -
I found out that the guns sold on horstheld.com sold for $3,000. The only other thing that we were wondering about was how old these guns are. Anyone have an estimate on the age? Thanks again to everyone that has responded. 0 -
Yo, Wolf, these are breechloaders, no nipples involved.
I can't say the exact age but I had a picture of a duelist in the mask and duster in a 1910 edition book.0 -
I'm away from my books so just winging it. Your pistols are "mock-Duel" made after dueling was outlawed. If you look up "societe de assault" or something close to that you will learn about them.
The folks using them wore padded jackets, face mask and the pistols had metal shield to protect the hands. Fired something like a wax bullet.
Sorry for not having the the correct spelling.0 -
I was told that mine were probably from the 1860's , but I have no documentation. 0 -
More likley circa 1900. 0
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