kel-tec pmr30
wanting to buy one of these, who knows what? about them.
do they jam,feed correctly,accurate,or junk[?]thinking they would be a good defense gun in work shop,pickup gun.
30 rnds lots of firepower in 22magnum. thanks
do they jam,feed correctly,accurate,or junk[?]thinking they would be a good defense gun in work shop,pickup gun.
30 rnds lots of firepower in 22magnum. thanks
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Few have actually been put on the market, as of this point in time. Only seen one for sale, a scalper at a show was trying to sell one for about $150 more then MSRP.
Because of this their is little actual hands-on info about them yet. You might GOOGLE for a site called rimfire central, there have been a few of the posters who have actually got their hands on one, even if they had to pay through the nose. You would be able to get an idea about them, from their posts.
My experience with .22 Mag handguns is that they are very noisy and a lot of muzzle blast, from the short handgun barrel. It sure wouldn't be something I would want to shoot indoors without adequate hearing protection. You wouldn't have to actually shoot a perp with it for home defense. The muzzle blast and fireball would probably scare him to death.0 -
Surfing the gunboards, it seems they are getting the bugs out and the little guns are shooting pretty well. I don't know if I would want to go to war with one, but it would be better than nothing and better than some I have seen.
Rufe is right, .22 WRM handgun is LOUD. Henry Stebbins pointed out the scare factor about 50 years ago for the S&W M51.0 -
In my opinion, there are really much better choices out there for a defensive handgun than a .22 magnum.
The idea of a low recoil gun that holds 30 rounds is pretty attractive, but the fact is that the .22 magnum round was designed to be fired from a rifle, and its ballistics from a pistol aren't that impressive.
Specificaly, you'll get roughly 1230 fps from the Kel-Tecs 4.3" barrel with ordinary 40 grain .22 magnum ammo. That's functionally identical to the 1250 fps you'll get from a 40 grain high velocity .22LR from a rifle.
While a .22LR from a rifle is nothing to sneeze at, it's still pretty anemic compared to most common defensive pistol rounds. There's a reason why nobody advocates using a .22 rifle as a defensive gun.
As a good comparison, lets consider a typical 9mm+P luger load that puts out a 124 grain bullet at the same 1250 fps.
The 9mm will put out a bullet with three times the mass, and punch a hole 2.5x larger than the .22 at the same velocity. In other words, EACH 9mm luger round is going to hit roughly as hard as THREE .22 magnums simultaneously, plus offer better penetration.
Recoil on 9mm guns isn't particularly high, and service 9mms that hold 17 rounds or even more are readily available. For example, the stock Glock 9mm holds 17 rounds, and there are 20 round mags available for the Beretta 92 that only stick out of the bottom of the gun a little bit. 19 round mags are available for CZ-75s and Springfield XDs in 9mm luger.
I'd hope that 15-20 rounds of 9mm ought to be enough to fix any "problem" you might encounter!
Edit: Responding to below:
Whatever the muzzle velocity of the CCI Velocitor rounds from a pistol is, so far as I know there are no conventional (mag in grip) pistol designs in .22LR that hold 30 rounds. So being Devil's advocate, the advantage of the Kel-Tec .22 mag over an "ordinary" .22 pistol is basically capacity, not better ballistics. I still can't recommend one as a defensive gun to anyone capable of handling a bigger round, though.
It not fair to compare a single-action full sized .22 to a subcompact double-action only 9mm luger in terms of rate of fire. If you're going to make a comparison like that, then you have to at least compare the Kel Tec to 9mm guns of similar overall size and design.
Remember, while its quite light, the Kel-Tec is fully 8" long, making it actually longer in overall size than say a Glock 17 or any number of other full-sized service type auto pistols.
From experience, I'd say its no trick at all to get out 2 reasonably well-aimed shots/second with a full sized service 9mm at a static target, and in fact I've seen it done quite a bit faster than that. Which means (per above) that a service 9mm is still going to put out as much ballistic power per second as someone squeezing the trigger on a .22 magnum as fast as they physically can. A really good shot could probably project more power per unit time with the 9mm luger.
While I don't doubt its *possible* to fire a Kel-Tec .22 at a rate of fire of 5-6 rounds per second, realistically the person you'd be shooting at isn't likely to just stand there like a paper target absorbing bullets for the literal eternity of 5-6 continuous seconds while you are playing submachine gun with your index finger!
Consider that any reasonably fit adult can EASILY cover 30-40 YARDS running in that time (and it could be TOWARDS you), and you better make sure that your FIRST shots do the trick, since the likelihood of you connecting will likely go down considerably after that.
Even stipulating that you'll have the opportunity AND ability to hit your target multiple times with your .22 (which you may not, and IMO definitely shouldn't count on), they're still fairly anemic rounds. What are you going to do if the pea-like .22 bullets all fail to penetrate the targets skull or their thick winter jacket? What if they're behind light cover?
Again, I'm not volunteering to get shot with even one .22, and I'd certainly rather have this Kel-Tec in my hand in a fight than a rock (or even just about any other small-caliber gun), but there's a major reason why pretty much ZERO police, military, or security forces on the planet field .22 handguns as service guns, despite the many seeming advantages of lighter weight, lower recoil, and lower cost of .22s. Its because .22s just don't stack up ballistically.
While it might be statistically true that more Americans get killed by .22s than anything else, I think that's mostly a function of the prevalence of .22 guns. There are more .22 rifles out there than any other caliber, probably more pistols as well, and CERTAINLY more .22 rounds fired than any other caliber. If you were to go on a case-fatality (or case-morbidity) basis, I think you'd find that the likelihood of a wound from a 9mm causing severe injury or death is *MUCH* higher than a .22.0 -
Well, my pair of PMR30s seem to feed, fire, and eject the empties as well as either of my Grendel P30s do (I shoot IPSC regularly with them); there's not much more noise than firing any other gun indoors (though, I admit I've got to question the wisdom of firing a gun indoors), I'm going to get some concrete velocity data later this year when my chronograph gets back from PACT, as well as comparative data from a single six and my AMTII which have similar barrel lengths.
KT has done a good job in making more guns available lately; they're getting out about 450/week now; seems it takes some training of employees in how to work the new equipment in order to speed up production.
I wouldn't hesitate to tote a 22mag for defense; 30 rounds in someone's torso/face in about 5 seconds beats any 4-5 rounds of 9mm I've ever seen. There's almost no recoil, so one can place shots accurately, and most 9mms I've shot have plenty of kick; enough to make the second shot high/wide (especially in something concealable like the P11 or PF9)especially at longer distances like 30 feet or so.
Lotsa folks denigrate the 22mag as being "ineffectual" as a defense round, and fer sure having only 1 bullet is a drawback; but when there's a small wall of tiny projectiles approaching, I'm certain that even the baddest a$$es will concede they've been hit, and hit well. The 22lr is supposed to be a wimpy li'l round, but I know they've killed more folks than any other round.
Answers to above and below-
OP wanted to know about reliabilty and accuracy; pretty well asked and answered both ways. "Service Pistols" could even include a Witness in 38Super, and as I have a few of those in different calibers, I tried to conceal them in a Rosen vertical made for a P30-not gonna happen. But round is hotter than 9mm and "should" cause damage on par with 357Sig or lightly loaded 357Mags instead of 22WMRF.
Don't always believe the stuff MFRs put out about velocities or accuracy, so I do my own testing to find out what happens in MY gun, at MY location. Not saying anyone's lying; just getting the research done for my own knowledge.0 -
quote:Originally posted by gunnut505
I'm going to get some concrete velocity data later this year when my chronograph gets back from PACT, as well as comparative data from a single six and my AMTII which have similar barrel lengths.
The velocity data on-line specifically for the PMR 30 with 40 grain bullets, shows that it only has approximately 100 FPS advantage over the CCI Velocitator LR round also with 40 grainers. This is from a .22 LR pistol with a similar barrel length to a PMR 30.0 -
NOAH,
I don't have one, but here are two reviews of the gun:
This one has photographs of the targets:
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366099
This one has video, too:
http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30-2.htm
...and a review of a couple of holsters for the gun:
http://www.gunblast.com/SimplyRugged-PMR30.htm0 -
thank you bigloop22 very informative post that sold me on the kel-tec pmr 30 will put on my too buy list before the year is out[:p][;)][:p] and thanks to all replys also
noahquote:Originally posted by BigLoop22
NOAH,
I don't have one, but here are two reviews of the gun:
This one has photographs of the targets:
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366099
This one has video, too:
http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30-2.htm
...and a review of a couple of holsters for the gun:
http://www.gunblast.com/SimplyRugged-PMR30.htm0 -
As a defensive round 22 mag is better than 22lr or 25acp. However, if you are gonna go wtih the small round at high velocity in a pistol the size of a PMR you can get a FN 5.7, giving you better ammo choices for defense, much more velocity, similar capacity. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by iwannausername
As a defensive round 22 mag is better than 22lr or 25acp. However, if you are gonna go wtih the small round at high velocity in a pistol the size of a PMR you can get a FN 5.7, giving you better ammo choices for defense, much more velocity, similar capacity.
Keltec has the PMR 30 priced in the $325/$350 range. For some reason FN thinks their toy is equivalent in value to the crown jewels of England. Haven't seen any for less then $900. Some scalpers are trying to get $1500. For some sick reason they think that the Fort Hood massacre is a hot selling point. Proudly telling all, that this is the pistol that the Fort Hood Arab used.0
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