Short Upland Shotgun Barrels
Browning & Remington have made "short barreled" shotguns in the range of 20"-24". Most of these have built-in choke tubes. Can anyone comment on the performance of these Upland shorties. I know that short-barreled rifles loose some velocity...just wondering about shotguns as it may affect patterns and range. THANKS!!!
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you will not notice any effect 0 -
E.J. Churchill in England did extensive firing tests and concluded that 25" was the optimum shotgun barrel length for velocity and handling. His XXV guns had a distinctive tapered rib to give the impression of a more traditional 28-30 inch barrel. An automatic is a longer gun than his doubles but I still would not care to go below 24" for a hunting gun. A 20" is a riot gun in my eye. A friend has a 26" Benelli Ultra Light that strikes me as a handy game gun as a repeater. 0 -
Hi Mich,
There is alot of misinformation out there regarding short barreled shotguns, velocity versus barrel length (shotgun), choke tube constriction, back boring, etc.
I mainly hunt grouse here in Western Wisconsin. My favorite grouse guns are my Remington 870 LW 20ga with a 21 inch remchoke barrel, and my Browning BPS 20ga Upland Special (English style stock) with a 22 inch invector barrel. The standard choke tubes that come with a new barrel (i.e. full, modified, and improved cylinder) tend to throw way too tight a pattern for me to hit grouse consistently. Most of my shots are 25 yards or less. I like to have a large swath of bb's, maybe 2 feet across the center, by a distance of 12-15 yards away. By 20-25 yards, I like a 3 foot circular pattern. It doesn't take much to bring down a grouse. A bb in the neck/spine, ding him in the head with a flier, or break a wing, and that bird is down. I use 7/8 oz light field loads, #6 shot, and it works great. A 21 inch barrel will fire a charge of birdshot at roughly the same velocity as a 30 inch barrel, because all of the powder has burned up within the barrel itself, in both cases. You sure don't need a 12ga loaded with 1 1/4 ounces of lead to knock down grouse and woodcock. Rediculously overpowered IMO. A nice even pattern, and more importantly, a shotgun that fits you well (and shoots exactly where your eye is looking as soon as you shoulder the gun), is the key to success. I've customized all my shotgun stocks to fit my facial dimensions. I file away alot of walnut (yeah, it ruins their resale value) until my fat little right cheek is nestled such that my eye is dead center behind the rib sighting plane. It takes a little fine-tuning to customize each of my stocks to my face, but it was well worth the effort. There are tons of casual shotgun shooters out there, who, when they fire their shotgun, where their eye is looking and where the barrel is actually pointing are along two different sight lines. If I don't hollow out my buttstocks for my right checkbone, all my shotguns shoot well to left, because my dominant eye can't get behind the eight ball (dead center behind the rib). I'm jumping all over the place here, but to get the type of patterns I wanted, I had to go with staight cylinder choke tubes and skeet choke tubes. Improved cylinder and tighter constrictions don't allow for any margin of error when aiming on grouse, plus with that tight a pattern, you make hamburger out of the breast meat, as the bb's are too close together on a direct hit. Another thing, a 30 inch full choke remchoke barrel will pattern pretty much the same as a 21 inch full choke remchoke barrel, for all practical purposes. Alot of people may challenge what I write. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I swear by choke tubes, light short barrels, especially in heavy cover, and the more open the choke, the better. For decades hunters were hunting with too tight a choked shotgun. In general, the more open the pattern, the better for ranges up to 25 yards. Duck or goose hunting is different, of course, and at those ranges, a tighter choke rules the land. There is much more I'd like to add (I've been patterning shotguns for about 20 years), but it's the Wisconsin Deer season and I've got to get to bed. One other thing, quickly here. I've patterned both Invector and Invector Plus (back bored) barrels. In theory, you get better, more consistant patterns with backboring, because there is less pellet deformation due to the enlarged bore. Fewer bb's hit one another when traveling down the barrel because of the increased cross-sectional area. My patterning results don't show a signifant difference between Invector and Invector Plus choke tube patterning. Probably because with the improved plastic shot wads/buffering materials, and hard plated copper bb's, there just isn't that much bb deformation taking place in the first place. Must go for now. Might be back though, if others lead you astray too far.0 -
+1 golferboy. I carry a 20" 870 with screw in chokes, Skeet #2 works best for me. The fast handling will more than make up being a foot or so closer. Shotgun powder burns fast, no real gain past 16 or so inches. 0 -
Thankyou Makindu! Your post is nearly as large as your grouse pattern, with no holes in it! I agree 100%. Will refer to your post for further inquires. 0 -
Mich and Jaeg,
After the Thanksgiving Holiday weekend if over, I'll take the time to write up a 'short' summary of what I've observed first hand over the years. I'll post pics of how I modify my shotguns, and post some patterning pics. I'll post it over on General Discussions and tip you both off with an email when it is available.0 -
THANKS folks...GREAT Discussion...VERY USEFUL!!!!
Michibay0 -
Writer and Expert Don Zutz...he writes "for years I lugged an auto loading skeet gun on pheasant hunts...and during that time I only missed one bird. If a bird hunter knew his shooting would not exceed 35 yds...there would be nothing more deadly than a 12ga skeet gun." 0 -
I've had a Browning Citori Upland Special (12 gauge/24" invector) since 1984. It almost has a mind of its own. Pure joy to jump rabbits with. Dove are not safe out to 30 yards or so. 0
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