Rifle Help
I haven't the slightest idea what on earth this is. It says Belgium on the barrel, there are proof marks which I have taken photos of. If anyone can help me answer:
What it is?
Who made it?
When was it made?
Where it was made?
Value?
I would be so greatful. I am looking to sell this. Thanks so much!
What it is?
Who made it?
When was it made?
Where it was made?
Value?
I would be so greatful. I am looking to sell this. Thanks so much!
0
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I have been offered a couple rifles, a 1941 Lithgow MK3 and a Mauser K98.
Both of these rifles I cant wait to get a hold of them but am hoping for a little help with both, I would like to know about the K98 history and find out what model, year etc and with the Lithgow if the sites for the rear can be found anywhere.
Huge thanks to Nononsense in helping with the rifle and posting pics etc.
The Lithgow MK3 has a great barrel and the stock is in reasonable condition, on the butt it has been marked with the roman character 3 and HV 1941 the only drama i have with it atm is the rear site. All other pics i can see dont have this site. The stock is round so i guess it has either been replaced at some stage or the mounting is original and i need to find someone with the rear site, im not sure if the rear mounts are original or if its something the guy has added to the rifle/ Can anyone help on this part?? Pics are below if it helps.
The second Rifle is a K98 which looks to me in great condition, the seller says that it is unissued and looking down the barrel he could be correct.
When i have searched for K98's i cannot find one that looks the same as the one i have been offered, i think possibly the stock has been changed at some stage, where the markers mark and year should be it near the breach it looks like it has been ground down at some stage (you can see this in the pictures). With my very little knowledge of these rifles it looks to be a earlier model with locking nuts, bayonet lugs etc but when i look at the muzzle it looks different to any pics I have seen posted.
Any help with this one too would be appreciated, pics are below0 -
Flobert parlor rifle made in Belgium made in the late 1800's into the 1920's. Not a lot of collector interest with values generally running in the $150 range for common models.
Warning! Do NOT attempt to fire modern ammo in it!
From an earlier thread:
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=286646
I have written on this several times on GB. Here is what I posted some time ago, edited a bit.
Flobert was a Frenchman who invented his type of action around 1840, at the very beginning of the breech loading era. The original true Flobert action uses a cartridge similar to .22BB without powder, only primer, and a round ball. The action itself is composed of a heavy hammer with the firing pin on it that slams directly on the head of the cartridge. It depends on the mass of the hammer plus its mainspring to oppose the forces of the firing cartridge. No breech block or closed breech as such. They became popular for "parlor use", indoor target shooting mostly with long guns. Many exist today highly decorated, engraved, etc., typical of the toys of the well-to-do. Various early and simple rimfire guns are often called 'Floberts', with several types of more or less positive breech closure. The real Flobert is as I described, no actual closed breech. You can do an internet search such as with Google and will find many entries that respond to the word Flobert. Hope this helps.0 -
I don't believe that is a parlor rifle. I will look thru my books in the am, but I think it is a centerfire gun about 8mm bore.It has a "block" that locks the shell in. Sort of a upside down falling block gun. Bob 0 -
Not an expert on these, but I have flobert rounds up to 9mm in my collection, and every Flobert rifle I have seen has that wonky shaped trigger guard. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by babun
I don't believe that is a parlor rifle. I will look thru my books in the am, but I think it is a centerfire gun about 8mm bore.It has a "block" that locks the shell in. Sort of a upside down falling block gun. Bob
The action on the rifle in question is known as System Warnant it was developed in Belgium probably in the late 19th Century. All are found chambered for low pressure rimfire Flobert cartridges. There is no locking mechanism on most of the guns other then the weight of the rotating breech block, although some of them do have a locking knob. Not hardly strong enough for a conventional centerfire cartridge.0 -
I digress, it is a Warnant system gun. sorry about the mis-information. Sear&Roebuck sold that gun for $2.45 in 1901. Claimed it to be the safest gun for a youngster. Bob 0 -
Here's one on the auction side that looks like the same action to me. The trigger guard is different though.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=1981785160 -
So to summarize, you all think it is a Belgian Flobert using a Warnant system. Caliber? Is it 8mm....is that what the 8m on the side means? The example you gave me has 22L on the side and the person advertised that as the caliber....22LR I believe. How about year? I found the following online...what does the controller of proofs have to do with this? Does that date the gun between 1928-1965?
The Perron, sole proof mark until dropped in 1810, Since 1853 used to indicate inspection or proof of breeching system. Not used on revolvers. Can be either of these. 1672 - 1810,
1853 - present
Crown over a circled ELG* - Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. In now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders 1893 - present
Crown over R - Designates rifled barrel. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms 1894 - present
Controller of Proofs - * over a particular letter indicated proof controller.
* over O
Watrin Charles
1928-1965
On the side where the proofs are, I assume the FL means Flobert. I'm assuming 8m means 8mm caliber, but what should I assume 1L means? Thanks!0
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