The Judge- 45colt / 410
With these combination rifle /shotgun pistols now on the market, I'd like to hear opinions from the board on handloading the 45 colt cartridge . This being a Brazilian made firearm, I'm wondering how much pressure it will safely take ? Any one experience it ? thanks
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Mine didn't have the problems with loads rather it was accuracy. I was using Remingtons 255 grain .455 dia. lead bullets. The only accurate load I could work up was using 6 1/2 grains of AA 2 powder at between 650/700 FPS, (estimated). Any more powder then that and accuracy went down the toilet. 0 -
.410 shotshell and .45LC are both old black-powder type rounds that operate at relatively low pressures (under 15000 PSI, if I remember right).
Standard .45LC rounds are already comparable to .45ACP, if not slightly better. Why push it, ESPECIALLY with a gun like the Judge that isn't even a "pure" .45LC revolver?
If you want/need .44 or .454 magnum like ballistics, then get the appropriate gun.
Incidentally, I'm not a big fan of the "Judge":
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=443252
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=468165
Edit:
quote:I'm not looking for max loads , just safe loads. What do you have against the Judge?
As mentioned, any factory published loads for .45 Colt should be fine, and stock loads should be excellent for personal defense. In theory, as a modern manufacture gun, the Judge "should" be able to handle +P loads. . .though you might want to contact Taurus for its opinion there.
On the second thing, my personal objections to the Taurus judge are described in some detail in the above two threads. In summary, instead of combining the best features of a .45 revolver and a .410 shotgun, the Taurus is a hybrid that gives you the WORST of both worlds:
-Patterning with ordinary .410 shotgun shells is absolutely lousy with wide pellet dispersion and a "hole" in the pattern center from the rifling. In practice this pistol can't be used to hunt small game, break clays or do anything else you'd expect to do with a conventional shotgun past more than 15 feet.
-.410 buckshot gives anemic ballistic performance from the short Judge barrel, with each individual 00 pellet replicating .32ACP ballistics.
-As a .45LC revolver, the Taurus is bulky, inaccurate, and unreliable.
-The gun has at least two serious recognized design defects that in my opinion potentially limit its use as a defensive arm; an ejector rod design issue that makes the cylinder prone to falling off, and another with cylinder spacing that allows primers to back out of shotshells during firing, potentially causing cylinder lockup. Not good, if you "need" the gun to work!
Edit #2:
Personally, I wouldn't qualify the Taurus Judge as "junk". While there are "junk" guns made from shoddy materials and of poor design, I don't think the Judge falls into that category. Even given the potential reliability issues (of which, I think the ejector rod one is probably fixable), the materials quality of the gun is fine. The gun should hold up to long term use with proper loads.
What I would say is that the Judge is largely a novelty gun, and the marketing campaign and hype surrounding this gun are totally out of proportion to what the gun actually does. In my opinion, there are any number of better choices out there for self-defense, recreational shooting, or hunting, and I really can't recommend this gun for any "serious" purpose.
If you need a shotgun, get one, and if you want a large bore revolver, get one. If you just want the ability to bust snakes, then just buy a few commercial "snakeshot" rounds for your .38/357, .44, or .45 wheelgun. If you want more oomph from your .410 shotgun, put slugs in it.0 -
I'm not looking for max loads , just safe loads. What do you have against the Judge? 0 -
I think any wheel gun load for 45 colt would be fine. 410 loads shouldn't be any problem either. I think most folks don't like it for two reasons, long bullet travel to hit rifleing doesn't promote accuracy. Second people think that they are instant Annie Oakley because they got a shotgun pistol. It just ain't so. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by countershaft
I'm not looking for max loads , just safe loads. What do you have against the Judge?
Like has been stated, stick to SAAMI maximum pressures or under. That gun is NOT designed for pressures to mimmick the S&W N frame, the Ruger Blackhawk, Redhawk, Colt Anaconda, or TC Contender. Actually if you stick with lighter loads, you might have better controllability, and reliability. The Judge has not been steller on reliability. In fact, I would not have one period to depend my life on. No combination of loads will most likely improve this.
What does anyone have against the Judge? I will speak for myself on this one, then you can use the search function, and look up past threads on the Judge. The Judge is a piece of JUNK. Taurus tried to copy the Thunder 5, and missed by a country mile. They are very poorly made, and the reliability will give you a false sense of security that could get you killed. By that, to a sense, one thinks he has a miniature revolving shotgun...untill he can't get the cylinder to advance.
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[8] The Judge is a piece of JUNK.[8]
Have owned a judge for a year now, have put over 500 hand-loads
through it with no problems.
Oh yes I'm 75, retired grunt, nra life member,I have seen firearms that were junk when new, the judge is not one of them.
Pattern of the 410 load is good for grouse, rabbits and snakes if less than 20 feet. If you can't get within 20 feet that's great [:D]
Would I buy another? Just Did!0 -
quote:Originally posted by 1935Lee
[8] The Judge is a piece of JUNK.[8]
Have owned a judge for a year now, have put over 500 hand-loads
through it with no problems.
Oh yes I'm 75, retired grunt, nra life member,I have seen firearms that were junk when new, the judge is not one of them.
Pattern of the 410 load is good for grouse, rabbits and snakes if less than 20 feet. If you can't get within 20 feet that's great [:D]
Would I buy another? Just Did!
quoted from someone else..."a fool and his money soon part"
You might want to do a search of the topic Taurus Judge on here and read the pleasantries about them.
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i got the 2" compact one and with 410 buck it is deadly with in the 25ft defensive zone 0 -
my motto:never believe anything you hear or read, and only part of what you see.
Perhaps after my judge gets broke in I might change my mind. But then I bought a new 1968 Edsel and still think it was one of Fords better cars.0 -
I was in our local "Big R Store" yesterday, the manager of the sporting goods department was telling me they had 1 Judge out of 250 sales this year that had to be sent back to Tarus. (Front site insert fell off) 0
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