44Mag Ammo question
I recently purchased a new Ruger 77/44. With the exception of Hornady's Leverevolution, is there another make/model that is designed specifically for rifle length barrells? I am guessing it'd be loaded with slower burning powders instead of fast burning for a handgun.
I would think the bullet design would have to be tweaked a bit for the higher velocities as well. Anyway, any information or knowledge would be greatly appreciated.
I would think the bullet design would have to be tweaked a bit for the higher velocities as well. Anyway, any information or knowledge would be greatly appreciated.
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You can use the same ammo in a handgun and rifle. There is no difference in powders for each. The rifles get more velocity than a pistol with the same loads.
I've hunted with both in 44mag. Use the same hand loads in them.0 -
Well, pretty much ANY commercial .44 magnum load is going to perform better in a longer barrel compared to a shorter one.
If you want some data, see here:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/44mag.html
At a first glance, for the listed rounds the velocities increase up to about a 12" barrel, then max out.0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
Well, pretty much ANY commercial .44 magnum load is going to perform better in a longer barrel compared to a shorter one.
If you want some data, see here:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/44mag.html
At a first glance, for the listed rounds the velocities increase up to about a 12" barrel, then max out.
Beany,
You just have a list of all the good sites, don't you. You never fail to impress with the wealth of information you keep under your hat, and willingness to share.
ebeshirs,
To the best of my knowledge, the Leverevolution, is the only load out, specifically designed for a rifle...or at least the bullet anyway. As has previously been stated, I too have seen that normal commercial factory loads, can sometimes depending on the rifle, and pistol, get as much as 300-400fps higher velocity out of the rifle, over the pistol. That is not just specific to the 44 magnum, but 9mm, 45 ACP, 44 Mag, 357 Mag, 41 Mag, 22LR, and 22 WMR. My only advice would be, use the lighter bullets for varmints, but if you go to big game, use a heavy for caliber bullet, to avoid the lack of penetration, and bullet fragmentation issue.
Best0 -
The old Dupont handloading guides listed a completly different loading for a 22" barrel and a 240 Gr SP giving around 350 more ft/sec with less 4227 which was the only common powder between the rifle and pistol data. The rest of the 22" barrel loadings used rifle powders. 4198, 3031,4064,4895,4350 and such. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
Beany,
You just have a list of all the good sites, don't you.
In fact, I **DO** keep such a list bookmarked on my computer, thanks. [;)]
This "Ballistics by the inch" site is an absolute gold-mine, by the way, since its based on REAL measurements of velocity with REAL ammo fired from REAL guns. I've always wondered about this sort of info for handgun rounds like 9mm luger and .45, and now we have the answer.
What is interesting to me here is how UNLIKE the .357 and a few other rounds, how the .44 magnum tops out within a relatively short barrel. In other words, its a fairly efficient round with standard loads.
Anyway, I'm quire sure its possible to cook up special "Rifle" loads that would maximize performance from a longer barrel. There probably are published loads like that. . .though I don't have any details.
The problem is that loads like that would tend to give relatively poorer performance in a handgun AND offer lots of flash as the unburned powder gets ejected from the short barrel. Of course if you never intend to shoot them in a handgun, no worries.
In terms of bullet design. . .nah. . though bullet selection always depends on what you are trying to do. In GENERAL .44 magnum rounds aren't all that aerodynamic, and slower overall velocities (even from a rifle) limit practical range to 125 yards or so.
If you're trying to maximize velocities, jacketed bullets never hurt.
Obviously, you don't want to use soft cast lead bullets at rifle-like speeds, or you'll gum up the barrel with leading pretty fast. Hard cast bullets are better or hard cast/gas check (if you can afford them!).0 -
If you take a close look at the data shown on the "ballisticsbytheinch" webpages you will perhaps notice that most of the results show that over about 16" of barrel lenght, velocity seems to start dropping off again..
I personally did the samme test with my Ruger 10/22 and shortened the barrel about 1/2 an inch at a time, until velocity did not increase!! I ended up with a 16" barrel....
What that means is: The loads of fast burning pistol powder in most pistol calibres will reach a point where the pressure behind the bullet no longer accelerates the bullet, and friction in the barrel starts to slow it down...
If you have a rifle, lets say with a 24" barrel, you MAY be able to load a 44mag with a very slow powder and gain some extra velocity from this....If you can cram enough powder in the case[:D]
Such a load will probably result in far too much muzzle-flash from a normal revolver or pistol barrel of 4 -8"0 -
quote:Originally posted by DKDravis
What that means is: The loads of fast burning pistol powder in most pistol calibres will reach a point where the pressure behind the bullet no longer accelerates the bullet, and friction in the barrel starts to slow it down...
This is also true of ANY gun and ANY load, from .22 rimfires up through artillery pieces. For any load there is a particular barrel length where all the powder is burned, all the gas is generated, and maximum velocity is achieved.
After that length is reached, more barrel length just means more friction for a bullet to overcome before it leaves the barrel. and LESS velocity (though not necessarily a LOT less).
But note, just because a certain barrel length gives you optimum velocity with a particular loads, that doesn't make that particular length ideal or even necessarily a goal to shoot for. There can be all sorts of reasons why you want a SHORTER or LONGER barrel length other than simple velocity.
For example, even though .44 magnum pistol loads start to top out in velocity at about 12" barrel length, the fact is that a 12" barrel revolver is totally impractical for most shooters, and that a 12" barrel rifle is illegal!
As another example, just because load #1 tops out at 12" bbl length, that doesn't mean that load #2 can't benefit from another 2 inches of barrel. Most individuals will sooner or later want to fire different kinds of ammunition from their gun.
Longer barrel means less muzzle BLAST (ie noise) usually a bit less flash, and also can lead to a longer sight radius, which is potentially an advantage in an iron sighted carbine.
Finally, getting back to the main question, ultimately no matter what the load or barrel length, you're going to be constrained by the caliber. There is only so much you're going to be able to do with a .44 magnum. Maybe if you're diligent, you might develop a "rifle load" that brings you up from say 1550 fps to 1750 fps from a long barreled gun (though I doubt you'd even see that much benefit).
Is that difference really going to make a real world difference? I'd argue that it probably won't.0
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