S&W M&P 360 revolver - 1.87" vs 3" barrel
I am planning on purchasing either the 1.87" or 3" Smith and Wesson M&P 360 revolver (.357 mag). I was told by Gander Mountain sales rep that the shorter 1.87" barrel would be too short to really take advantage of the 357 loads (unburned powder due to short barrel). He recommended the 3" barrel. That wouldn't be a huge problem, but I'd prefer the shorter barrel for ease of carry and it also seems that there are fewer holster options for the 3" barrel revolver.
Would really appreciate any comments on the "too short of barrel" thought as well as accuracy differences between the 2 barrel lengths (real or theoretical) and any suggestions for holsters for both of the barrel lengths.
Appreciate comments even if you don't own the gun.
Would really appreciate any comments on the "too short of barrel" thought as well as accuracy differences between the 2 barrel lengths (real or theoretical) and any suggestions for holsters for both of the barrel lengths.
Appreciate comments even if you don't own the gun.
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I much prefer the 3".
No difference in concealability in my holster.
More accurate for me.
CP0 -
One extra inch in length does make a big difference in performance[:D]. I carried a 2 1/2" Dan Wesson for 33 years and never felt under gunned. Eddie 0 -
Go with the 3 inch. The 2 incher is no easier to carry or conceal, and the 3 inch is much easier to point, aim, and shoot. It balances better too.
My wife, who is not a shooter, has a 3 inch Model 36. She shot a coyote with it one day while I was at work. I asked her to show me where she was standing when she shot it, and measured the distance at just over 30 yards. Not bad for a beginner.
BTW, neither the 2 inch nor the 3 inch barrel will offer optimum performance with .357 Magnums, unless you shoot loads that are specifically tailored for a short barrel. You might find that a good .38 Special +P loading will perform as well but with less flash, blast, and recoil.0 -
Try the Speer "short barrel" loads in 38 special +p. They beat the 357 mag loads I used in the 1 7/8 barrel 340 sc on the chrono, and didn't hurt the shooter as much either. 0 -
3-inch barrel has another advantage, namely use of a full-length ejector rod that will throw empty cartridges clean out of the cylinders, instead of half-way out. This is potentially more of an issue with .357 magnum loads that can be more "sticky" than ordinary .38s.
In terms of efficiency, the fact is any barrel less than 16" long is not going to entirely use up all the powder from a .357 load.
That's how it is with just about every load. The longer the barrel the more juice you'll squeeze out.
But in particular, the difference in extra power you get with a 3" bbl over a 2" is pretty dramatic. The gain in velocity per inch is highest over the first four inches. Not entirely surprisingly, one more inch barrel length over 2 inches yields nearly 1/3 more velocity (or nearly 75% more kinetic energy). That's a pretty big reason to go for the extra inch, if you can conceal it, and if you intend to actually carry .357s:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html
Edit:
Sorry, that only answered the first part.
Recoil and flash are pretty impressive from a .357 snubnose. You'll get a pretty massive muzzle flash that you can even see in daytime. The longer the barrel, the less the flash is in your face, so that's another advantage.
In terms of accuracy. . .its irrelevant.
Yes, its easier to hit things with a 3" bbl vs a 2" (especially when the 3" gun has nice visible adjustable sights and the 2" has lame snubnose "gutter" sights), but realistically in a defensive situation you're unlikely to be taking a shot past 10 yards, and pinpoint accuracy isn't really necessary anyway. You're more likely to be doing "point and shoot" inside a room or even contact muzzle directly onto bad-guys torso then shoot.
Answering the second thing, 3" holsters are out there if you look for them, and of course any custom holster maker can easily make you one. I don't think of this as a big disadvantage.
Many holsters for 2" bbl guns have open muzzles so you could stick a 3" bbl gun in there, it would just stick out 1" past the bottom of the holster. If its IWB, it probably wouldn't even matter.
I'd say biggest, and in fact only real disadvantage of a 3" barreled gun is that the longer barrel length makes carry IN A POCKET much harder. But if you're going to carry on your belt, another inch barrel probably won't change much.0 -
Wow - thanks for all the great comments! Very helpful! Seems like the only reason to take the 1.87" barrel would be for a little bit better concealability. Sure wish there was a store around that would carry both models. Heck, I haven't even been able to find an M&P in a store yet.
elubsme - good one..[:)] But an inch doesn't make much of a difference if the gun stays in the holster...[;)]
beentownshootah - great comments. Would you happen to have any suggestions on custom holster makers? I have a pancake holster for my Ruger Redhawk that I bought from Roy's Leather Goods, Magnolia, Arkansas back in the 70's (awesome quality), but think they are long gone... I was wondering what people thought of the Fobus molded holster? I'm thinking it might wear off the bluing of the gun?
cbermd - what kind of holster do you have?
nunn - biggest reason I'm trying to get a lightweight gun is for bowhunting and berry picking. There are more coyotes, wolves and bear up here than deer!!
harold - will look into that kind of ammo. Thanks..0 -
quote:Originally posted by rhinebash
beentownshootah - great comments. Would you happen to have any suggestions on custom holster makers?
I've only worked with one. The guy is literally building them each by hand in his garage. For what its worth, I was pleased with the results and he was pretty nice in my communications with him. If you scroll through the options, he'll build you one for a 3" model 60, which is dimensionally similar to the Smith 360.
http://www.jmgholsters.com/default.htm
I can't comment at all about quality, but this outfit makes holsters for 3" barrel snubnose revolvers:
http://bellcharteroakholsters.com/pancakes.html
Again, you don't necessarily NEED a custom holster. Bianchi makes a nice inexpensive suede leather IWB holster for a J-frame that could accomodate a 3" bbl. Its their model "6". This also happens to be my personal favorite IWB holster. . .the suede is comfortable to wear and molds to the gun with use. . .less is more.
Pretty much any "Yaqui slide" type holster could work too, though you may or may not like that style (personally, I do not).
On Fobus. . .I can't endorse them.
The typical paddle holsters are good for the range and they're relatively inexpensive, but they're rough on gun finishes, IMO not all that comfortable concealed, and supposedly not that strong.
quote:
nunn - biggest reason I'm trying to get a lightweight gun is for bowhunting and berry picking. There are more coyotes, wolves and bear up here than deer!!
Oh. If its mainly for outdoor use, I'd definitely go for the longer barrel. (Can you carry open? If so, go for a 6" bbl!).
If you really think bear could pose a threat, you might consider either a larger caliber (eg .44 magnum) or at LEAST this ammo, which is about as powerful as you're going to get in a .357:
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=100
(And make sure you take a look at the comparative ballistics. . .the 180 grain heavy bullets do nearly as well from a 3" Smith J-frame gun as from much bigger guns).
EDIT:
OK, forget the Buffalo Bore ammo. I forgot that you were talking about a SCANDIUM framed 12 ounce gun! Buffalo Bore suggests that the harsh recoil you'll get in an alloy frame pistol can cause the bullet to "jump" crimp. That won't make the gun blow up, but it potentially could lock up your revolver rendering it useless in an emergency situation.
In general, I think the ultralightweight .357s like the one you are looking at are really pushing the envelope in terms of recoil with true .357 magnum loads. Firing something like a 180 grain bullet at 1300+ fps would be absolutely punishing from a gun like that.
In fact, if you're really commited to the .357 caliber, you might consider going with an all-steel model 60 instead. Recoil is still fairly brisk, but its a lot better.0 -
Fantastic advice! Thanks again. I would rather have 44mag, but I have Redhawk that weighs 49 oz and gets heavy. Guess picking handgun is like everything, you always have to compromise - not a perfect one for all purposes. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
3-inch barrel has another advantage, namely use of a full-length ejector rod that will throw empty cartridges clean out of the cylinders, instead of half-way out. This is potentially more of an issue with .357 magnum loads that can be more "sticky" than ordinary .38s.
In terms of efficiency, the fact is any barrel less than 16" long is not going to entirely use up all the powder from a .357 load.
That's how it is with just about every load. The longer the barrel the more juice you'll squeeze out.
But in particular, the difference in extra power you get with a 3" bbl over a 2" is pretty dramatic. The gain in velocity per inch is highest over the first four inches. Not entirely surprisingly, one more inch barrel length over 2 inches yields nearly 1/3 more velocity (or nearly 75% more kinetic energy). That's a pretty big reason to go for the extra inch, if you can conceal it, and if you intend to actually carry .357s:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html
Edit:
Sorry, that only answered the first part.
Recoil and flash are pretty impressive from a .357 snubnose. You'll get a pretty massive muzzle flash that you can even see in daytime. The longer the barrel, the less the flash is in your face, so that's another advantage.
In terms of accuracy. . .its irrelevant.
Yes, its easier to hit things with a 3" bbl vs a 2" (especially when the 3" gun has nice visible adjustable sights and the 2" has lame snubnose "gutter" sights), but realistically in a defensive situation you're unlikely to be taking a shot past 10 yards, and pinpoint accuracy isn't really necessary anyway. You're more likely to be doing "point and shoot" inside a room or even contact muzzle directly onto bad-guys torso then shoot.
Answering the second thing, 3" holsters are out there if you look for them, and of course any custom holster maker can easily make you one. I don't think of this as a big disadvantage.
Many holsters for 2" bbl guns have open muzzles so you could stick a 3" bbl gun in there, it would just stick out 1" past the bottom of the holster. If its IWB, it probably wouldn't even matter.
I'd say biggest, and in fact only real disadvantage of a 3" barreled gun is that the longer barrel length makes carry IN A POCKET much harder. But if you're going to carry on your belt, another inch barrel probably won't change much.
Very important! Go with the 3" barrel!0
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