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Does anyone know what pressures Moder Revolvers...

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are built to withstand? In particular, I'd like to know about the S&W 329 NG and the 329 PD. The NG has a SS cylinder and the PD has a Titanium cylinder. Smith's website claims the PD is the strongest revolver they make.

The reason I ask is b/c Smith does NOT recommend using Buffalo Bore Ammunition in their guns. The guy I talked to at S&W said that they get blown up guns in all the time that evidently failed with the Buffalo Bore Ammo.

Buffalo Bore makes a lighter load called the 255 Keith that is supposed to be safe to shoot in the ultralights, but I'm trying to figure out if I'd be safe carrying heavier hardcast bullets in it for bear. I won't be shooting them other than to see how well they shoot...just keeping them in the gun for bear.

So...does anyone here know what kind of pressures modern revolvers are made to withstand? ...and if the Buffalo Bore is a safe choice.?.?
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  • ruger41
    Buffalo Bore and Garrett both specifically state not to use some of their ammo in some guns. SAAMI rating for .44 Magnum is 36,000 psi. If you check on Buffalo Bores website it specifically states which .44 not to run it in-and they show their lower recoil 255 grain Keith load at 1700fps totally safe in the 329PD by name. The reason not to use non recommended bullet weights in these lightweight guns is twofold--1. certain bullets will jump their crimp under recoil because of the guns lack of weight and 2. recoil to you is ridiculous.

    Betcha anything the folks getting blown up S&W are ignoring the warnings right on BB's website on the Heavy and the +P+ .44 Mag loads. Also you might not get some of the Heavy loads to chamber all that well because they have extra long bullets that just won't fit in shorter cylinders(mainly the 305 & 340 grainers) plus extraction issues could be a problem.

    You aren't going to turn that NightGuard or a 329PD into your old .460 no matter what you do so why punish your hand and the gun by hotrodding it? If you stick to the standard Buffalo Bore load you will also be able to do something that you probably won't be able to accomplish with those hotrods---fast follow up shots that will be on target.
    Will a cylinder or two ruin your gun--who knows it could--it could stretch the frame too. If both the ammo & firearm company advise against it why take the risk? If you're worried about the .44 not being enough for Grizzly your right--it's not--no handgun is guaranteed a 100% kill against a charging bear although it's better than no gun at all. Try the 255's into wet phone books & see how deep they go in-bet they will be enough-so long as you can hit an animal coming at you at 30mph full on and hit it right in the brain.

    Hunting them with a handgun is one thing--charging animal is a whole other ball game--you gave up a rifle powered handgun for a handgun powered handgun but I bet you are a good enough shot with that little S&W--in fact that Keith load specifically states it will penetrate a bears skull so buy some of that load or even load your own and practice practice practice[:D]

    btw Eric--my BIL & I went coyote hunting this weekend in the woods and saw a large black bear--I didn't feel so comfortable with the .223 I had so I know how disconcerning you may feel in Grizzly country lol.
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  • beantownshootah
    There is no way to know how strong revolvers really are, short of destructive testing. For reasons that should be obvious, I wouldn't expect Smith to tell you those numbers (though it probably DOES have a pretty good idea of what they are).

    For what its worth, as mentioned .44 magnum SAAMI specs out to 36,000 PSI.

    I simply can't believe that Smith is claiming that the 329 PD is the strongest revolver it makes. I don't see how that can be true when Smith also sells its X-frame .460 SW magnum, that I believe operates at a rifle-like 65,000 PSI. The Scandium framed Smith probably isn't designed to handle anything way beyond "normal" .44 magnums.

    (And that's your answer, by the way. . .instead of trying to supermax out .44 magnum guns beyond their design specs, if you think you'll need more than that consider getting a new gun in .460).

    On Buffalo bore ammo, as Ruger41 said, it puts out loads specifically designed for super-strong guns OTHER than Smith revolvers (like Freedom Arms and Ruger). I'd imagine most of these won't even chamber in a Smith, but I could see one blowing up a Smith revolver.

    I think the standard Buffalo Bore .44 mags will probably be fine in your Smith. Just stick to the 300 grain hard-cast. How good are these? Here's the results of some personal testing:

    Gun: Ruger Super Blackhawk, 7.5 bbl:
    DSCN0614.jpg?t=1284659336

    Test medium. Note, this picture is NOT from the .44 magnum; the image is of a different round, but it does show the test books pretty well and gives you some sense of scale.

    Take my word for it that penetration with the hard cast .44 magnum slug was pretty impressive with the bullet going clean through two of the hardback 3000+ page books and lodging deep into the third:

    DSCN0634.jpg?t=1284660770

    This is what the .44 mag bullet looked like after fishing it out of the third book. Note good mass retention on bullet:

    DSCN0620.jpg?t=1284659244

    Will that go through a bears skull? I hope so.

    Note that I would describe recoil with these loads as "brisk". They weren't unpleasant to shoot out of the big steel gun, but after shooting each one, the barrel of the gun was pointing towards the sky! I wouldn't want to try and get quick followup shots, especially with a really light gun!
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  • bpost
    quote:Originally posted by ECC
    are built to withstand? In particular, I'd like to know about the S&W 329 NG and the 329 PD. The NG has a SS cylinder and the PD has a Titanium cylinder. Smith's website claims the PD is the strongest revolver they make.

    The reason I ask is b/c Smith does NOT recommend using Buffalo Bore Ammunition in their guns. The guy I talked to at S&W said that they get blown up guns in all the time that evidently failed with the Buffalo Bore Ammo.

    Buffalo Bore makes a lighter load called the 255 Keith that is supposed to be safe to shoot in the ultralights, but I'm trying to figure out if I'd be safe carrying heavier hardcast bullets in it for bear. I won't be shooting them other than to see how well they shoot...just keeping them in the gun for bear.

    So...does anyone here know what kind of pressures modern revolvers are made to withstand? ...and if the Buffalo Bore is a safe choice.?.?


    According to some article I read a while back the GUNS will be OK at a constant 50 percent over-pressure. They might start failing at double pressure; who in their right mind would want to find out.

    If you MUST stop a bear, carry a LAWS rocket or shotgun.....In the 44 mag the LYMAN #429421 245 grain Keith style cast out of lino-wheel weights pushed by 23.4 grains of 2400 will drive through bone and brains and keep going.
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  • ruger41
    abear2.jpg
    This gentleman had to defend himself against this grizzly--gun used was a .454 Casull in a Redhawk Alaskan--distance measured at 20 yards from the first shot til it dropped and it still took more than 1 shot to kill it.
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  • Hawk Carse
    quote:According to some article I read a while back the GUNS will be OK at a constant 50 percent over-pressure.

    I don't think so.
    The government once had H.P. White Laboratories run tests on many different handguns. Few if any could stand up to regular shooting with proof loads which are typically about 1/3 over standard.
    Suspicious me, I figured they were looking at means to restrict gun sales by putting in almost impossible standards under the guise of a European type proofhouse system.
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