Glocks and lead bullets
OK, I know your not supposed to shoot lead through glocks with factory barrels...and that after market barrels can be used to do this...But, how big a deal is it?..Is it just that accuracy suffers or is it a quicker build up of lead in polygonal(or something like that) rifleing?...I bought some buffalo hard cast 220 gr for my new glock 20 as a sidearm while bowhunting montana...If I shoot a few at the range, then maybe a magful ONLY if I had to, would this be bad? The owners manual says something like "not recommended"...not that it was deadly....can I get away running a box through and cleaning good then have my magful at the ready?
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Accuracy from my experience is horrid at best with lead bullets in a Glock. The amount of leading was amazing, it is like the barrel is designed to smear lead, like butter, across the entire bore. Shooting jacketed bullets after lead will get some of it out but mostly it just smears it around some more.
The real problem is the chamber on a Glock has a large unsupported area, the pressure generated by shooting jacketed bullets after lead could/might/will rupture a case wrecking your gun, hand and day.
Even though I own one I still feel the Glock is the most dangerous handgun sold on the market. It needs a cut rifling barrel and a safety to be a decent gun IMNSHO.0 -
quote:Originally posted by jag
OK, I know your not supposed to shoot lead through glocks with factory barrels...and that after market barrels can be used to do this...But, how big a deal is it?..Is it just that accuracy suffers or is it a quicker build up of lead in polygonal(or something like that) rifleing?...I bought some buffalo hard cast 220 gr for my new glock 20 as a sidearm while bowhunting montana...If I shoot a few at the range, then maybe a magful ONLY if I had to, would this be bad? The owners manual says something like "not recommended"...not that it was deadly....can I get away running a box through and cleaning good then have my magful at the ready?
The polygonal rifled barrels lead up quickly, particularly at relatively high 9mm luger velocities.
Can you get away with a magazine-full in a pinch? Yes.
But personally, I wouldn't do this for practice, or in anything less than a true emergency.
Aftermarket Glock cut-rifling barrels are so cheap and readily available, I really just don't see a good reason to take a chance here.
Edit:
JAG, responding to your reasoning below.
If all you've got are hard-cast lead bullets for your 10mm and you want to carry them on a trip, I don't see why you'd have any problem. More likely than not you won't be firing ANY of them. If you did have to fire some, it probably wouldn't be many, and a mag or two worth isn't likely to hurt your gun.
For Tsavo, I don't think this question was meant to turn into a referendum about the pros and cons of Glocks, but to be clear, its the combination of poor case head support with some calibers, polygonal rifling, and a short-throw 5.5lb trigger with no external manual or grip safety that leads some individuals to question the intrinsic safety of Glock pistols.
Comparing to SIGs or Smith revolvers isn't quite fair. Stock Smith revolvers have long-throw DA triggers that take 12+ lbs of pressure to set off. SIG auto pistols do have safeties. . .they have decocking safeties that take the gun into DA-first pull mode. The DA trigger pulls on SIGs are not that dissimilar from those on Smith autos, plus (fair or unfair) SIGs don't have a reputation of blowing up the way Glocks do.
Personally, I liken stock Glock pistols to cocked and UNLOCKED 1911s. The military spec on a 1911 trigger was 6lbs, that's almost identical to that on a stock Glock pistol. Is is "safe" to carry a 1911 with a round in the chamber and the safety on "Fire"? Well, sure, the gun won't go off unless you pull the trigger, but common practice is that nobody who has one actually DOES carry it this way. That would be considered "insane" practice for a 1911, yet its "routine" for a Glock. Even though the various gun safety rules are supposed to prevent accidents from poor gun handling, the reality is that they don't always get followed, and the easier a gun is to set off negligently, the more likely it is that it will actually happen.
You say that police and military carry Glocks, therefore they have to be safe. While there is some truth there, in fact many police agencies (including the NYPD, which has more cumulative historical experience with police shooting incidents than any other metropolitan police dept on the planet) mandate heavy 10lb+ double-action like triggers in their issue Glocks. Why would they do this if Glocks were totally "safe"?
Now, I'm not saying Glocks are "unsafe". . .but they do have several well-recognized safety issues that I think merit attention from users0 -
I also own a glock and shooting lead bullets can cause the pressure to rise extremely high with the factory barrel. This can cause a most severe "KA_BOOM" in glocks. I recently purchased a KKM Precision barrel so that I could shoot lead and reloads safely in my glock. I am getting ready to test my new barrel later this week. 0 -
Glockman, You said"so I could shoot lead AND RELOADS safely". Is there an issue with reloads I have not heard of, or is it just reloads with lead bullets? I loaded some Berries s/p plated hollow points and they seem to shoot fine, am I treading on thin ice? Also what about shot shells? I bought some for snake loads then heard about the lead problem. 0 -
I ignored the warning and guess what. First I ruined the barrel. The lead would build up so bad after about 75 rounds that lead was flaking out of the barrel.Second the hexigonal rifling dissapeared. Literally wore off. Cleaning was horific even with lead remover. I have shot numerous copper jacket bullets prior to the lead with no problems, so reloading is not dangerous as long as you don't double charge or make other large over pressure loads. I replaced the barrel with one from lone wolf for $100 and they even will fit the chamber to your reloads if you send them 5 of your reloads without primer or powder for no charge at the time of order. So yes you can get away with it but is it worth it? NO!!! Why would you use lead bullets for hunting or self defense anyway? GOOD lUCK HOPE THIS CLEARS UP SOME OF THE MYSTERY. 0 -
Thanks to all who replied...I didn't mention the reason behind wanting to do this but because you've taken the time to reply, I feel I owe you the reason I asked......I just recently purchased the glock 10mm(arguably not enough power for a grizz but thats another thread) anyway, the reason for lead in PD or hunting? its not exactly lead, they are HARD CAST. Better pentrating power for a skull shot...The reason I'm considering shooting these out of the g-20 is I'mm leaving in a couple of days and dont think I can get another barrel that quick and possibly not any other/better suited ammo quickly. And lastly, I had posted this same question at another forum and was shown this, pretty interesting I think!...thanks to all again!
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=590 -
ok so sig autos ,colt and s&w revolvers are unsafe also (they dont have safeties).
poly bores are better and last longer if you shoot jacketed ammo.
as jag found out, the lead from unjacketed bullets quickly fills the corners. he should throughly clean before use. this will cause a unsafe bore diameter which will result in failure of he keeps it up.
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glock as all manufacters do not ok the use of reloads, b/c quality control can be suspect
there is nothing wrong with glock, or they would not be the dominant cjoice of PD's, Fed agencies and well represented in IPSC and IDPA
quote:Originally posted by bpost
Accuracy from my experience is horrid at best with lead bullets in a Glock. The amount of leading was amazing, it is like the barrel is designed to smear lead, like butter, across the entire bore. Shooting jacketed bullets after lead will get some of it out but mostly it just smears it around some more.
The real problem is the chamber on a Glock has a large unsupported area, the pressure generated by shooting jacketed bullets after lead could/might/will rupture a case wrecking your gun, hand and day.
Even though I own one I still feel the Glock is the most dangerous handgun sold on the market. It needs a cut rifling barrel and a safety to be a decent gun IMNSHO.0 -
I too have shot lots of my own reloads, FMJ or copper clad Rainer bullets, through my glock mdl 22 and have not had any KA-BOOMS. I guess at this point I choose not to temp fate any longer and bought the KMM barrel. The last thing I want to happen is to have that weapon explode in my hands. By the way all the major manufacturers have exclutions on shooting reloaded ammo of any kind through their factory barrels. Had a guy come into the gun shop where I frequent and he had a S&W blow up on him. They sent it back to the factory and S&W said that he had been shooting reloads, must have been diagnosed from powder residue, through it and that voided the warranty. So going to a different manufacturer's brand still isn't the correct answer when it comes to using reloads. 0 -
do you FEEL LUCKY SOME WHERE BETWEEN 1&100,000 ROUNDS OF LEAD LOADS you will hear KABOOM depends on load Grains of powder /hardness of lead/amount and type of bullet lube/ How strong the case is. ENJOY 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsavo303
ok so sig autos ,colt and s&w revolvers are unsafe also (they dont have safeties).
Revolvers have a LONG and rather heavy DA trigger pull, I don't own or know about SIG pistols W/O safeties. In 45 years of handling firearms the ONLY gun that I feel is inherently unsafe to carry locked and loaded is the Glock. That little tiny trigger within a trigger gives me zero comfort when walking through brush and briers or near fence lines. I know the argument about trigger control but you will never convince me a S/A Semi-Auto pistol is "safe" without a manual safety. Please understand, this is my opinion on the Glock. I still own and shoot a 21, it is my home protection gun.0
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