250 Savage AI 115 Berger VLD
Wondering if anyone has any load data with the 115 Berger in the 250 Savage and in the Ackley , and what kind of veloity your getting. Im looking to have a rem 700 reemed to AI. I really like the Berger's in my 280 AI.
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N8Will,
I have lots of reloading data and test information but it's not necessarily applicable to other rifles.
First and foremost, there are very few absolute rules for Ackley chambers and no standardized reamer prints for each cartridge. This allows for quite a bit of variation in both reamers and consequently, chambers. These variations can result in significant performance and data differences rifle to rifle.
- Your gunsmith can't just run an Ackley reamer into your barrel for the new chamber. The barrel needs to be set back at least one thread before cutting the new chamber.
- Make up a few dummy cartridges for the bullets you want to test. Be sure to know where your bullet to throat contact length is located. You can find this easy easily enough by soft seating a bullet in a loose case neck and chambering this in your rifle. Carefully extract and eject the dummy so as not to change the length. Measure, record and save the dummy. Initial testing should be from an OAL shorter than the jam length. There are some tools which will help you measure from the ogive of each bullet which is more accurate than trying to get an accurate measurement from the tip of the bullet.
- The general suggestion is to start with the maximum (safe/published) load for any bullet/powder combination with the parent case loaded in the Ackley chamber for fireforming. However, it might be prudent to start a little lower depending on the other specifications of your chamber as well as the OAL compared to the throat of the Ackley chamber.
Velocities will be dependent on barrel length and seating length.
My reamer, my chamber, Lapua brass in a 26" barrel can yield in excess of 3,000 FPS with properly constructed loads using the 115 Bergers. Your results could be drastically different due to reamer design and the chamber set up. Brass quality and chamber dimensions will limit the operating pressure and the number times your brass can be reused.
I use V V N-550 for some competition loads but I can use all of the 4350 powders with a good margin of safety for general shooting or hunting.
Be prepared with an open mind and a willingness to do some judicious testing in order to develop a feel for the cartridge in your rifle.
Best.0 -
N8Will,
I think it's worth it for two reasons. One, more velocity and two, better case life.
FWIW, before I say anything more, Ackley felt this was his best improved cartridge of all. Not to mention a ton of cartridges have either directly used this case as a parent case or by a round-about way have come to approximate it's dimensions, i.e. the 6mmXC, 6x47, 6.5 Creedmoor. So, it's a very efficient, useful case in mid-weight calibers. The .257 caliber is right in the middle therefore a perfect candidate.
What you'll find generally if you load for the .250 Savage is that load books tend to hold pressures way down as this caliber is still heavily loaded in the original Savage 99's. That's what I load this in and it's easier to keep pressures below max. Not so much because the gun/action aren't strong it's just the way it works mechanically, you have almost no leverage on a tight case to eject it.
However, that won't be your problem if you do go with a Rem 700. nononsense already expained what pretty much has to happen on the gunsmithing side.
You can expect as nn said up to about 3k for velocity. Although, I think you would generally find your accuracy around 2850-2950. I know with both my .257 Rob and 25 WSSM that bullet (115 Berger) flies best around 2950. I get that from those cases using RE17, RE19, H4350 and H4831, AA4350, Win 760, VV 150, VV160 Ramshot Big game, and Ramshot Hunter. What you would need to do is start about 1/2-3/4 of the way up the .250 Savage list, with a faster powder, and work up to where you start seeing pressure signs. I say faster powder as it eliminates the possibility of detonation of a case with a light load of slow powder. Once you determine the percentage of where that is safe to start at you can reasonably interpolate where it's safe to start for other slower powders. Meaning if you don't see any pressure signs well above the std. .250 load then you could start other powders at max of the std. .250 case. I wouldn't start above that though. It's not but a couple cents to work up a load ladder. It's expensive if you jump up too high to start with. Not to mention healing takes a lot of range time away if you really overdo it...
Edit
Note: It is difficult to see pressure signs as easily as on standard cases. If you see flattened primers stop, then back off a grain.
Lastly, what Rem 700 Action is this on? What do you plan on using it for?
This might be the Rem 700 "Classic" of 1984 Vintage. I've seen these sell for some pretty good money in good shape. You might want to think about leaving it original. For a good 700 Action I would look at one that was a .308 based case (.243, .260, .308, .358). It would take a lot less to make the rails help it feed correctly. My opinion too (but I'm really biased) is a good heavy barrel on this would be just the ticket. And yes, this rifle would get you out to 1k without a problem.
Also, another bullet to consider, but it takes a lot of lead time, is the JLK 108 gr. VLD. It has a 15R ogive and a .500 BC Not too shabby. And it will certainly get you just as far as the Berger
-good luck with this.0 -
Sand, thanks for the info, Yes it is on a classic but I got into it for a steal and it shoots great. the stock has some pretty deep scratches in it so that is the reason Im going to make this into an Ackley. Plus the funds arent ther for a total custom.I have a couple other improved rifles and love them, been trying to build a 250 for a long time and finally have the chance. just trying to get some other opinions on the 115 bergers on this case. I had a bob imp and thought that the rem short action was a little short for the heavier bullets. My 280 AI with the 168 VLD are a little over 3.5 OAl,and I shoot them at 2850,so Im trying to match that with a .257 that will allow for the longer OAL. I really like the performance of the VLD,s on game they seem to realy stop them in there tracks. The other bullet you were talking about Ive never heard of, where can i get some info on them at? Thanks Nate 0 -
Sand,
I will be using it for hunting most of the time. Mainly long range coyotes and for deer and goats if I ever draw a tag. This rifle will also be a clone of my 280 so it will be a little cheaper to shoot.0 -
N8Will,
JLK Bullets:
http://www.swampworks.com/jlk/
Steve is a great guy, works hard to continue producing excellent bullets.
Best.0 -
" The barrel needs to be set back at least one thread before cutting the new chamber. "................JUST TO NOTE, THAT IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE LETTERING ON THE BARREL YOU ONLY NEED TO 'LOOSE' ABOUT 1/4 THREAD 0
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