Kimber Problems...Need your thoughts...UPDATED
It's been a while since I fired my carry gun, which is a Kimber 1911 Custom Shop gun...and it has been throated and had the ramp polished. The extractor has been replaced with an Ed Brown extractor.
I shot it today and it jambed up BIG TIME. It extracted the first two cases and then failed to extract the empty brass. The slide would come all the way back and attempt to chamber the next round with the empty brass only half way out of the chamber. I had to shoot all three mags one shot at a time except for the last 3-4 rounds in the second mag, which did extract.
Does anyone have any idea what may be causing this. The last time I fired the gun, it functioned flawlessly. Thanks!
One more point...almost all the brass were blackened on one side of the case.
UPDATE: I went back out with some factory ball ammo and it ran flawlessly. The ammo that I was carrying in the gun was hollow points and was loaded by a local manufacturer of ammo. I don't think the hollow points had anything to do with it jambing b/c the cases were not extracting. I think it had something to do with the ammo itself. I need to get some factory hollow points to run through it to see if they function OK. The 1911 Smith changed out my factory extractor when I had it throated b/c of some flaws in the factory part.
Edit # 2: It's not the mags...I'm using Kimber and Wilson Combat Mags. I don't understand why it's not extracting the cases from the locally manufactured ammo.?.?
Edit for Perryshooter:
quote:EDITEXtractor not proper tension or Slide out of Spec. You have a pistol that is on your second Extractor as it is now.and gun still has extraction problems Reloads may be too Hot and cartridge case is still high pressure when the slide tries to extract or tension not correct. Take the slide off with barrel removed take both a factory round and a reload round . Now slide a round against the breach face of the slide it should go under the extractor with slight amount of pressure then turn the slide right side up and the round should NOT fall out even if you shake the slide. Try with both kinds of rounds.
The gun never had any extraction problems until now...and still doesn't with other ammo. I will try your recommendations though. Thanks!
I shot it today and it jambed up BIG TIME. It extracted the first two cases and then failed to extract the empty brass. The slide would come all the way back and attempt to chamber the next round with the empty brass only half way out of the chamber. I had to shoot all three mags one shot at a time except for the last 3-4 rounds in the second mag, which did extract.
Does anyone have any idea what may be causing this. The last time I fired the gun, it functioned flawlessly. Thanks!
One more point...almost all the brass were blackened on one side of the case.
UPDATE: I went back out with some factory ball ammo and it ran flawlessly. The ammo that I was carrying in the gun was hollow points and was loaded by a local manufacturer of ammo. I don't think the hollow points had anything to do with it jambing b/c the cases were not extracting. I think it had something to do with the ammo itself. I need to get some factory hollow points to run through it to see if they function OK. The 1911 Smith changed out my factory extractor when I had it throated b/c of some flaws in the factory part.
Edit # 2: It's not the mags...I'm using Kimber and Wilson Combat Mags. I don't understand why it's not extracting the cases from the locally manufactured ammo.?.?
Edit for Perryshooter:
quote:EDITEXtractor not proper tension or Slide out of Spec. You have a pistol that is on your second Extractor as it is now.and gun still has extraction problems Reloads may be too Hot and cartridge case is still high pressure when the slide tries to extract or tension not correct. Take the slide off with barrel removed take both a factory round and a reload round . Now slide a round against the breach face of the slide it should go under the extractor with slight amount of pressure then turn the slide right side up and the round should NOT fall out even if you shake the slide. Try with both kinds of rounds.
The gun never had any extraction problems until now...and still doesn't with other ammo. I will try your recommendations though. Thanks!
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The extractor has been replaced with an Ed Brown extractor
I would start here....What ammo were you using ???? Did you try multiple brands etc..0 -
factory or handloads ?? blackened on one side of the case...getting blow by and the loss of preasure = FTE 0 -
Is this a Type II with an external extractor or a Standard 1911 type with an internal Extractor[?] If external extractor send ir back to Kimber they had quality control problem during that time frame with both slides and Barrels Some barrels split and had Kabooms [V][:(][:(!]
. Why was the ED brown extractor installed [?] if internal standard design type. Then Extractors have to be fitted . Too tight and they dont allow the cartridge to slide up the slides breach face and Too loose will allow the cartridge to fall out of the control of extractor before it hits the Ejector.
EDITEXtractor not proper tension or Slide out of Spec. You have a pistol that is on your second Extractor as it is now.and gun still has extraction problems Reloads may be too Hot and cartridge case is still high pressure when the slide tries to extract or tension not correct. Take the slide off with barrel removed take both a factory round and a reload round . Now slide a round against the breach face of the slide it should go under the extractor with slight amount of pressure then turn the slide right side up and the round should NOT fall out even if you shake the slide. Try with both kinds of rounds.
EDIT IIIT is EITHER the EXTRACTOR THAT NEEDS FITTING OR A DEFECTIVE MACHINED SLIDE0 -
A double feed/failure to extract. The extractor looses grip on the rim of the case before it pulls the fired case out of the chamber. The slide continues to travel fully to the rear, then back forward attempting to feed the next round in the magazine.
My first thought is lack of proper extractor tension. My next thing would be to have another gunsmith install and tweak a new extractor.
A google search produced this:
"Extractor Tuning Tips
By Bill Wilson
A well fit extractor is essential to the reliability of any M-1911 pistol. The following guidelines apply to fitting a new extractor, or properly tuning the one you have in your gun.
1. Correct Tension
With the slide taken off the frame and with the barrel removed, slip the rim of a LOADED cartridge under the extractor hook and position it so that the extractor is gripping the case at the center line, as shown in fig 1a and 1b. You should now be able to lightly shake the slide in any direction, without the cartridge falling off. If this test is unsuccessful, you will need to adjust the tension.
For tension adjustment, place aprox. 1/2" of the tip of the extractor into the extractor channel and apply just enough pressure to slightly bend the extractor. Be careful, a little goes a long way! See figure 1c.
Do not put more tension than needed to perform this simple test - too much tension will result in feeding malfunctions whereas too little tension can cause failure to extract and/or erratic ejection.
2. Positioning of the Extractor
The locator pad (the radiused lug behind the extractor groove) determines at what point the bottom of the extractor groove contacts the rim of the cartridge and puts tension on it.
Slide the rim of an EMPTY case under the extractor hook and position the case so that the extractor hook grips it at the center line. Now pull the case downwards approx. .075 - .1000"; there should still be tension, enough to keep the empty case in position even when the slide is lightly shaken. The same test performed with a loaded round should result in the cartridge falling off. This equals roughly to 1-1.5 lbs tension on the case.
If you have correct tension on the case when it is centered on the breechface, as described in (1) above and little to no tension at all, with the case being pulled down approx. .075 - .100", you need to bring the extractor groove closer to the firing pin hole.
This is done by removing a small amount of material at a time, from the locator pad, while maintaining the radius. Constantly check for correct tension, so that you don't take too much material off. See sketch below.
3. Fitting the Firing Pin Stop
The fit of the Firing Pin Stop to the groove at the rear of the extractor is crucial to the correct extractor positioning. If there is a loose fit, then the extractor will move or twist, causing inconsistent ejection.
With the extractor installed, the firing pin stop should slide into position using normal finger pressure. If the firing stop binds (when installing a new extractor), you will have to reducve the width of the firing pin stop, by removing material from its right side, where it contacts the extractor.
Remove only a few thousandths of an inch at a time, while being careful to keep the right side parallel to the left side. When correctly installed, the firing pin stop will fit snugly into place, which prevents the extractor from twisting.
Finally, several extractors sold, come rough and not polished or prepared. The following drawing shows you where you have to tune your extractor hook."
The think I don't really get is the cases blackened on one side. I really don't know if its significant to the problem. It being on one side probably because there is extractor tension pulling to the other side. Are you having a lock time issue? Gas escaping around one side of the brass because the slide isn't staying locked long enough? Maybe use a heavier recoil spring for that particular load? Honestly I'm not sure, but it intrigues me. I'd attack the extractor problem first and see if it corrects the issue.0 -
quote:I don't understand why it's not extracting the cases from the locally manufactured ammo.?
Some of this "locally manufactured" stuff is pretty sad.
Splurge on some factory hollowpoint. OK, I see you have already arrived at that: "I need to get some factory hollow points to run through it to see if they function"
Try the original extractor back in the gun, flaws and all.0 -
This is meant for informational purposes only. Do not attempt. Please consult a gun smith before any attempts at repair or modification. If you want to end the issue, that is, if it's an internal extractor, some material from the inside of the claw will need to be removed so that the claw tip may hook closer to the cartage and not just the rim's edge. Also reduce the area that rests on the slide hole so the claw hooks further onto the case. Tension it to as close to 3-3.5 lbs will make it more aggressive. Realistically the inner claw adds friction on the case as it feeds and isn't necessary. Only the claw tip is. To tension you'll need a trigger pull gauge to pull down on the cartage as its set within the slide. To tension it, just pull the extractor out to it's center nub at approximately 1/2 the length & rotate with the firing pin plate grove facing out and placing outward pressure on that plate groove holder and then reinstalling it checking the tension. The first thing is to remove the firing pin plate & firing pin before any of this. F.Y.I. slamming a slide to lockup with a round dropped into the chamber forces the extractor hook to move around the case's rim and really stresses on the tension & elasticity of the part. If heat treated too hard, it will brake just slightly forward of the firing pin retainer pale holder. Best of luck. 0 -
Lee blackman that article is excellent, I bought a new extractor and it basicly was a blank. I had to shorten, shape, fit, tension the works and those tests are just the right info that is needed to coplete the prodject. 0
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