Makarov, P-64, PPK
Makarov, Polish P-64, Walther PPK
Information on the Internet seems lacking or contradictory between these models.
We're talking about 3 specific models: Eastern European and Russian made low value semi-automatic pistols, including China production of Makarov:
1) Russian made Makarov (9x18)
2) Polish P-64 stamped "Makarov" (9x18),
3) Walther PPK (380).
Other possible similar models are exempt from this discussion.
Most know the Polish P-64, stamped "Makarov" is not a Russian made Makarov and is more like the Walther PPK in design yet the P-64 has more powerful caliber than PPK. Nonetheless, all three of these pistols can be lumped into a similar category of low value, small caliber, semi-automatic pistols that were mass produced by Russia, Eastern Block and China. There were a variety of countries in the Eastern Block that made these pistols. I traveled through all of those countries before the wall came down and saw many police and soldiers carrying these guns. At border crossings, guards also had sub-machine guns.
Speaking from personal experiences in owning these pistols, and shooting them, not merely collecting them, what are the PHYSICAL features of these pistols and your impressions on how they shoot? I'm not seeking comparisons about which model you think is better or worse, but just features of each. A given: The (9x18) round is more powerful than 380. So if you want a more powerful pistol to shoot, you'd choose Makarov or P-64, But, you may not want a more powerful pistol due to higher recoil etc. so you'd be forced to buy PPK out of the three. That's as far as we'll go in discussing comparisons as everyone has an opinion which would only expand the thread and confuse matters.
It's confusing enough Poland stamped Markov on their guns yet designed it more like the PPK that we only need physical features listed. Let readers make up their own minds in forming opinions about these 3 models. Sidebar: I bought beer in Poland in 1987 for less than a penny a glass. Salaries for a University professor was $4 per month and his rent was $1 per month. I could not imagine what western gun importers were paying for P-64's at that time. Perhaps $1.00 each or less. New Wool suits were selling for $4 each wholesale to importers.
No need for any gun values.
No need for posting duplicate features.
Experts Please: Thanks in advance for your information on these models. Your info would be very helpful.
Makarov:
P-64:
PPK:
Information on the Internet seems lacking or contradictory between these models.
We're talking about 3 specific models: Eastern European and Russian made low value semi-automatic pistols, including China production of Makarov:
1) Russian made Makarov (9x18)
2) Polish P-64 stamped "Makarov" (9x18),
3) Walther PPK (380).
Other possible similar models are exempt from this discussion.
Most know the Polish P-64, stamped "Makarov" is not a Russian made Makarov and is more like the Walther PPK in design yet the P-64 has more powerful caliber than PPK. Nonetheless, all three of these pistols can be lumped into a similar category of low value, small caliber, semi-automatic pistols that were mass produced by Russia, Eastern Block and China. There were a variety of countries in the Eastern Block that made these pistols. I traveled through all of those countries before the wall came down and saw many police and soldiers carrying these guns. At border crossings, guards also had sub-machine guns.
Speaking from personal experiences in owning these pistols, and shooting them, not merely collecting them, what are the PHYSICAL features of these pistols and your impressions on how they shoot? I'm not seeking comparisons about which model you think is better or worse, but just features of each. A given: The (9x18) round is more powerful than 380. So if you want a more powerful pistol to shoot, you'd choose Makarov or P-64, But, you may not want a more powerful pistol due to higher recoil etc. so you'd be forced to buy PPK out of the three. That's as far as we'll go in discussing comparisons as everyone has an opinion which would only expand the thread and confuse matters.
It's confusing enough Poland stamped Markov on their guns yet designed it more like the PPK that we only need physical features listed. Let readers make up their own minds in forming opinions about these 3 models. Sidebar: I bought beer in Poland in 1987 for less than a penny a glass. Salaries for a University professor was $4 per month and his rent was $1 per month. I could not imagine what western gun importers were paying for P-64's at that time. Perhaps $1.00 each or less. New Wool suits were selling for $4 each wholesale to importers.
No need for any gun values.
No need for posting duplicate features.
Experts Please: Thanks in advance for your information on these models. Your info would be very helpful.
Makarov:
P-64:
PPK:
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Welcome to Gun broker. In addition to reading what I wrote below, use the search feature on the various model numbers to learn more.
The Russians designed both the cartridge and pistol. The pistol was designed to be made very economicaly and stand up to very hard use. It is a very simple design with fewer parts than most pistols. It is easily disassembled and reassembled. A number of Soviet bloc countries made the Makarov pistol. I own a Bulgarian Makarov pistol.
I don't know why Poland deveolped its own design (P64) but was probably "encouraged by the USSR to use the 9x18 Makarov round for similar reasons most, if not all, NATO adopted the 5.56 round for small rifles and the US went from the 45 ACP to the 9MM for its pistols. The P-64 is marked "Makarov" simply to indicate what ammo to use. I have not shot a P-64 and cannot compare it to the Mak.
I also haven't shot a PPK. However, I did own a Hungarian PA 63 which resembles a PPK. The PA 63 shoots the 9x18 Makarov round. I assume that the PPK is of high quality and the most expensive. The 9x18 round is less expensive and currently more plentiful than the 9x17/.380 at this time. FMJs and HPs are available for both. Easy to reload, brass can be made from the 9x19 if 9x18 is hard to find. Most 9x18 brass is berdan primed and much harder to reload.
There're two other common pistols that shoots the 9x18: the Czech CZ 82, which I own and carry one and the Hungarian PA 63.
Makarov: Simple design, abundant supply of parts if ever needed, 7+1 rounds (some Russion versions hold more), single stack magazine, I dislike the mag release; safety is usually very stiff requiring a lot of use until it becomes easy to use and if for right handed shooters. Mag release at bottom of grip slows up changing over mags. Soviets didn't want accidental mag releases. Lighter and a little more recoil than the CZ 82, about the same weight and recoil of the PA 63. Putting safety on will de-cock the gun and block the hammer, very safe, double action.
PA 63: 7+1, looks less military, recoil and weight about same as the Makarov pistol. Two toned metal. Parts a bit harder to find. Safety easy to use and, if I remember correctly, the safety moves in the opposite direction than the Mak and is designed for right handed shooters. Magazine release is thumb operated and easy to use. I can't remember whether it was ambidexterious. Sold mine because I believe the Makarov would last longer. Perhaps a little lighter with more recoil than the Mak.
CZ 82: Only available used as surplus with various amounts of wear (I found one with virtually no wear at a reasonable price ($200 + s&h)early this year); Well made, 12+1 rounds, double stack magazine, Easy to use ambidexterous safety, nice ambidexterous thumb mag release, parts hard to find but some available through CZ USA. heavier with less recoil than the Mak & PA 63. Appears to be very well made. Safety is such that the gun can be safely carried locked & cocked like the 1911s. A bit harder to find a concealed holster in some designs. Grip is a bit wider and fits my hand better than the other 2. The first time I picked one up I knew it would fit and be more comfortable than my Mak.
The Mak, CZ 82 & PA 63 have approximately the same dimensions. The Yaqui style belt slide holster fits the Mak & CZ 82 and some ads say the PA 63 too. There are some Maks available that shoot the 380 plus the Mak can be changed to a 380 with a barrel press and a 380 Mak barrel. There's also a CZ 83 that uses the 380.0 -
Hello...there is an EXCELLENT multi-page article on ALL of the Makarov's in the 2002 Gun Digest...with color photo's. It is written by Jerry Burke. 0 -
Info on the P-64: http://www.p64resource.com/ 0
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