Winchester 21 Questions
I have a chance to buy this 21 12 ga ser # 16603 built in 1941, ws-1 ws-2 choked gun. I wonder if anyone has any info on some questions I have. This gun looks to be custom ordered and sold to john Olin (as stated in letter) for a gentlman name L.R. Wasey (Im not certain of the last name spelling). The photos are terrible because of the lighting and my camera phone. The letter shows that a cat with a key under it was engraved and gold inlaid by George Ulrich. It shows going back to factory for work twice, one time to install leather pad and make it a 4lb. trigger. Cat key is a small island about 60 miles from florida. Gun looks to be original except that the screws are not indexed like they should be as with all 21's. Here are the terrible photos, I will have more info tomorrow. Any help appreciated as far as value if all original.
Here is the logo engraved on the bottom of the gun....and here is a website showing history of the guns owner, also the owner of the island of cat key.
http://catcayyachtclub.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=58
Here is the logo engraved on the bottom of the gun....and here is a website showing history of the guns owner, also the owner of the island of cat key.
http://catcayyachtclub.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=58
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Hello Cartod do you have P.Muerrie's email address She might be able to shed some light on that model 21. 0 -
Thanks Pauline, that brings it all into perspective. If I happen to end up with it I will let you know. Todd
To anyone who wants to know, this gun was brought back into the factory 2 times and completly overhauled. The guy who owned it, also basically owned a small bahama island and he used this gun alot and could afford to have it factory refinished. I looked the gun over for an hour today and was not able to tell that the factory redid it other than they did not re index the screw heads, not sure why.
I will not release paulines records on it but this gun was completely taken apart and refinished 2 times, including soldering of barrels, re-engraving, rejointing, recheckering etc..
Now the big question......what does it do to the value??????????0 -
Hello Todd. Let's say, for sake of argument, that the gun without the engraving was worth 5 grand if it was in excellent factory condition. Ok, here's the sticky part, "used heavily" to the point where it required overhaul and refinish. The good part of that is that it was done at the factory. Bad part, it was done twice. Now I'm sure it was made into a basically new gun, but twice.(yikes!) With all of that considered, I'm guessing that would knock 2 grand, give or take, from the value. Now, engraved by George Ulrich? Big plus there. I'm sure Pauline, or yourself, can give an accurate estimate of that, and I'd be very curious myself to know. So good luck with the deal and I look foward to hearing more. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by forgemonkey
Todd,,,,,for what its worth re the 'rebuilds',,,,,,know a fella who has sent several of his guns back to the Browning custom shop for 'rebuild',,,,,he was the anal type and would send them back for the slightest flaw or imaginary defect,,,,,he never shot any of them enough to have any appreciable wear,,,,,,,,maybe you have one similar,,,,,[^]
That is exactly what Pauline said about the rebuilds, he could have been an anal type.... But this guy owned the entire Island and they hunted the birds down there....Who knows???
I am going to make an offer and if i dont get it, well I dont get it.
An exerpt from the islands History, I just wonder if john olin had a house down ther???:
"In 1935 Wasey converted the island to a private club and sold lots to his friends so that they too could build their sumptuous vacation homes. Eventually he had about 200 members paying annual dues of $500.00. Mrs. Wasey, who loved antiques, built the Cat Cay English Shoppe, where the island boutique now stands."0 -
Todd,
This is just my personal opinion... a factory rebuild/refinish is a small deduction on a high-end Winchester (and a Model 21 certainly qualifies)... no more than 10%.0 -
Thanks Bert, you basically backed up what Pauline said. You both are a powerful force in this market. Its ashame you wont dont see eye to eye. ...[:(]
I will buy the plane ticket for you two to meet. !0 -
quote:Originally posted by cartod
Thanks Bert, you basically backed up what Pauline said. You both are a powerful force in this market. Its ashame you wont dont see eye to eye. ...[:(]
I will buy the plane ticket for you two to meet. !
Todd,
Buy the tickets for Cody, WY... I am game for the meeting, and will provide her with a personal guided tour of the museum.0
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