pre 64 Winchesters
When I first heard the phrase pre 1964 I understood it referred to Model 70s before design changes to the extractor/feed control now it seems that some dealers use it to describe any old Winchester (I've even seen it used for old Marlins etc.)Were there any other significant changes in Winchester quality,designs or manufacturing practices maybe due to economic times or new leadership that year or is it just dealer hype
0
-
Labor costs were on the rise and Winchester was always watching what Remington was doing with their Model 700 so it wasn't considered to be economical to continue to build the rifles the same way that they had been made for nealry three decades. We have some Winchester 70 guys who can tell you the changes screw by screw, but besides the change to the rifle's action the bean counters also made a change from machined steel parts to stampings and cheapened the look of the rifle using lower grade wood with machine impressed checkering. What got the public PO'd is that the rifle looked cheaper but the retail price did not drop by even one red cent. In the long run it would have been far better to have simply raised the price of the Model 70 to cover the rising production costs and just told the buyers that they were getting a premium rifle when compared to the Remington. 0 -
Thank you Mark. To expand on the question does the pre 64 designation refer to changes in the quality or style of any other Winchester models at that time 0 -
The Model 1894 and others in the Winchester line up suffered a similar fate, but the Model 70 no longer being the rifle that it once was is what really got buyers angry. Keep in mind that this is not a case like Coca Cola which supposedly hired some marketing group to interview long time Coke drinkers who are supposed to ahve said that they really didn't like the taste of Coke at all so the company felt free to change the formula. Everyone loved the Model 70 but Winchester decided that they needed to trim costs and cutting some of the frills from the rifle would be a great way to do it. The problem was that all of the things they eliminated were all the things that people bought a Winchester for in the first place. 0 -
All of those zillions of '94 based commemorative lever actions are the cheapest of the post-64 guns with stamped lifters and mung metal receivers under the polish and plating. Friend of mine had a Canadian Centennial that was a surprisingly good shooter, though.
The Model 12 pump and Model 50/59 auto shotguns were not cheapened, they were completely replaced by the less expensive 1200-1300-1400 guns.0 -
The Model 94 suffered at least as much, if not more than the Model 70 did.
Additionally, a number of pre-1964 models were discontinued due to production costs (37, 61, 62, 63, etc.)0 -
Thanks to all who responded. I guess the thing I find questionable is referring to Pre 64 quality of models that were not manufactured after 1964 and that it is overused by some who do not know the true significance of that period but that's just me . Gentlemen its been a pleasure,good nite 0 -
Poor quality had been creeping up prior to 1964. You can see it in the wood, the butt plates and the checkering. It was the begining of the end for the New Haven giant. The only gun that kept the Winchester badge of honor was the 21 (and the 12 until 72).
Winchester, under the direction of John Olin, understood that the concept of a "gentlemans gun" was lost. But Mr. Olin new there was a place for the Model 21 and decided to make it the finest double gun in the world (partly because of his love of it).
Between 1960 and 1982 The Winchester cusom shop hand built aprx. 1020 model 21's. Most of them were the standard custom grade 21, but about 25% went beyond custom and are pure works of art.
In 1982 a custom grade would cost you $9500 and the Grand American almost $20,000. Because the 80's were racked with inflation and prices continued to climb the demand for these fine guns continued to decrease.
The Model 21 was the last great thing that Winchester did at the New Haven plant. Who knows what is in store for them under the FN name.0 -
As it applies to pre/post 1964 Winchester production, there were just four models that it applied to, and of the four, only two were affected (the Model 70 and 94). The Model 12 and 21 were not affected by the pre/post 1964 transition.
As I mentioned before, a number of the pre-1964 models were discontinued in 1963, and a crop of new models were introduced. The new models were simply nowhere near the same quality as the older models. Milled steel parts were replaced with cast or stamped parts, fit tolerances were opened up, hand cut checkering was replaced with pressed (basket weave), stocks were made of hardwoods other than walnut, and hand fitting of parts during assembly was reduced to an absolute minimum.0 -
Bert, didnt Winchester start to use castings on recievers and carriers on the model 12's in the early 60's? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by cartod
Bert, didnt Winchester start to use castings on recievers and carriers on the model 12's in the early 60's?
No, they were still milled forged steel.0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
10 comments