FMJ or hunting amo
What would be better to use in a pistol if you were out in bear country hunting for elk or deer with a rifle? If the bear was all of a sudden ready to attack you and to close to use a rifle, what would rather have in your pistol, fmg or regular ammo.
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What caliber pistol are you using [?]
With 44mag, or better yet, bigger, I would use the heavy bullets there are.A semi wad cutter or a soft point in them. A HP might not penitrate enough.0 -
I would want a big caliber pistol, starting at least with a 44 Magnum, as a lot of Elk country is Grizzly country too. The bullet of would be a heavy hard cast bullet. Such as the 300 grain Cast Core Federal load, or one of the Buffalo Bore, or Double Tap offerings.
If you are talking about a 9mm, 40 S&W, 45ACP, or 10MM, go with the FMJ.
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Agree with TSR. If you have light caliber you will need fmj to get penetration.
Best to go with a .44 in bear county.0 -
I'm sure this will draw some comments about no need for a handgun when you have a rifle. There have been several cases in which a hunter was approached by a bear while butchering an animal with the rifle out of reach. On a hunt in Montana several years ago, I killed a cow elk some distance from the trailhead and made 4 return trips packing out the meat. The was a large cougar padding around the area and even following my trail as I packed the meat. The S&W 44 was very welcome as I couldn't carry a rifle, needing both hands to negotiate the terrain with a loaded pack. I would never suggest dropping a rifle to draw a pistol during a bear attack. I'm very quick at mounting and firing a rifle so even at close range that would be my response. If contact was made and the rifle was lost, then I would attempt to draw the pistol for a contact shot. My choice of ammo in griz country would be one of the controlled expansion bonded bullets. Black bear/cougar choice would be (is) a 240 HP simply because the body size and attitude is somewhat less of a challenge. I'm leaving in 2 weeks for a ML elk hunt in Colorado and will include a Super Blackhawk 4 5/8" w/Nosler 240 HP handloads because during scouting, I saw some fairly sizeable bear tracks and am a slow reloader. 0 -
I would use good expanding bullets no matter what. FMJ's are good for penetration but in an up close and personal encounter I don't think penetration would be the mitigating factor. Initial velocity would handle that at close range. Expansion and killing power would be the key.
What ever you choose, it had better be reliable.
It was kind of funny. I just got back from Alaska on Saturday. The going rage for handguns is "bare minimum you must have a 454 Casull". And, "The .44 never really stopped anything before." "Better to have a .500, then you know you have it covered." Next statement I often heard was how more deer, elk and moose are poached with a .22 LR than shot legally with a centerfire.
Put a good bullet into a kill zone on an animal and it will kill it. A .44 mag is not a bad choice. At slower speeds choose a bullet with better expansion characteristics. A .45 ACP or .40 S&W will do the job too. Just remember to keep firing until the offending animal has quit charging.0 -
Or you run out of bullets.
Here in CA, they don't get as big, but I usually carry a 44mag with Federal 220gr (out of production now) or 250 gr metal case profile. It has an exposed lead tip, but is built for penetration. If I am out of these, I use a hard cast 300gr semiwadcutter.0 -
quote:Originally posted by rsnyder55
Or you run out of bullets.[:0].....[:D][}:)][:D]
Here in CA, they don't get as big, but I usually carry a 44mag with Federal 220gr (out of production now) or 250 gr metal case profile. It has an exposed lead tip, but is built for penetration. If I am out of these, I use a hard cast 300gr semiwadcutter.0 -
well beings that steel cored ammo is illegal to sale, heavy, hot loaded hard cast lead wadcutters or trunicated hollowpoints.
In atleast a .44 magnum.
Black bear are getting closer to my house all the time, they are even turning them loose not five miles away the way the crow flies.[:D]0 -
Since you already have a high powered rifle that would be better but to answer the question a hard cast lead bullet will do the job--something from Buffalo Bore or Garrett. I remember something a family friend who was a serious Moose hunter told me once when I asked him what back up handgun he used. He gave me a little laugh and said son my .375 H&H beats out ANY revolver you are going to pack on your hip against a bear--why do I want to carry all that extra weight since I have to pack out all that Moose meat. For me I'm a little on the fence about it because you could of course have a rifle malfunction at the last moment, you could have a bear that took bad hits or soaked up a lot of lead. 
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Lots of people believe a pistol is better for defense against bear and such, mostly because its more readily available and faster to get on target at close range. You can have the pistol on you at all times, including times when a rifle in impractical. But if you've got the rifle ready to go, I'd say that's better.
In terms of type of ammo, you'd want the most powerful ammo available for your particular gun. Generally, you'd be talking a big bore revolver like a .44 magnum or larger. For those guns, the "tough" ammo is generally all lead hard-cast bullets, and those offer pretty good penetration (see below). Those would work, as could other forms of hunting-type ammo. In a big heavy slug, FMJ could work, though I don't think it would be my first choice.
Also, relating to what Sandwarrior said, individuals love to repeat this idiotic joke about .44 magnums not being enough to kill brown bear (which I won't repeat here). Its not true. A .44 magnum is enough to kill a brown bear. Like everything else, key is shot placement.
In a handgun, bigger than .44 magnum **MIGHT** be better, depending on the skill of the shooter. Lots people simply can't handle hard-recoiling super-magnums like the .454 Casull or bigger. In my opinion, its not good practice to rely on a gun if you can't manage its recoil. The gun can fly out of your hand with recoil (seen it happen) or worse fly up and strike you in the head (seen it happen). If you're being attacked and for what ever reason your first shot doesn't do the job, these things can mean "game over".
Also, point-in-fact Brown bear (like everything else on the planet) have been killed by .22LR bullets. I've seen individual anecdotes about Brown bear being killed by .22LR, 9mm luger, and .40SW rounds (and of course multiple stories about Brown bear being killed by something ELSE, then when the game was butchered having multiple OLD .22s, .38s, etc cut out of the body).
For interest, here's a story of a police officer zapping a BLACK (not brown) bear with a Taser:
http://www.adn.com/2010/07/22/1378026/officers-taser-scares-off-bear.html
Here's a story of a 400 lb BLACK (not brown) bear killed by 62 year old woman with a .22 rifle:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=232037
Unfortunately, I can't find a link to post here, but for year the world record for largest Grizzly killed was held by a 15 year old Inuit girl who shot one in the head with her single-shot .22 rifle when out hunting rabbits!
The point is, again, like everything else, its more about getting a hit in the right place than which exact load you do it with.
Lastly, for the curious, this is what the 300 grain hard cast Buffalo Bore ammo can do (took these images about three months ago). Gun is a stock Ruger Super Blackhawk:
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