Is my Judge broken?
My "Judge" did something unusual today. When I tried to empty the cylinder, I turned the revolver up and slapped the extractor pin.
When I did, the entire cylinder slid backwards on the extractor shaft. It slid back to the point that the back of the cylinder sits about even with the middle of the hammer!
The cylinder WILL slide back into place and the cylinder will shut. At this point the revolver seems to act as advertised.
This has not happened before, and I've never seen this problem with ANY other revolver.
I think I'm looking at a trip (for the Judge) back to customer service. Am I correct in my assumption that this is NOT normal?
Thanks
When I did, the entire cylinder slid backwards on the extractor shaft. It slid back to the point that the back of the cylinder sits about even with the middle of the hammer!
The cylinder WILL slide back into place and the cylinder will shut. At this point the revolver seems to act as advertised.
This has not happened before, and I've never seen this problem with ANY other revolver.
I think I'm looking at a trip (for the Judge) back to customer service. Am I correct in my assumption that this is NOT normal?
Thanks
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Whenever I soften up and think about buying a Taurus, I read something like the above post and come to my senses.[xx(]
When I worked retaial gun sales for 10 years, I sent more Taurus back for repair than all other brands combined. And then the customer waited...and waited...and waited...sometimes 2-4 months to get their gun back from the factory! That tells me they have a VERY busy repair department.0 -
I am not sure if the Judge is like other revolvers or not. You have to be able to take the cylinder off some how. Make sure your screw is tight by turning the ejector rod while holding the cylinder till it comes tight. 0 -
I have owned Taurus handguns for more than 20 years. I own at least 8 different models, and this is the FIRST problem I've had with ANY of them.
I've seen pics of S&W's, Colts, Glocks,...blown up, locked up, and generally unserviceable.
It does NOT only happen to Taurus's.
Should have known I find a basher or two here!0 -
Needless to say, the cylinder on your Taurus dislodging is NOT supposed to happen. Its probably a loosened screw in the cylinder rod assembly (see below), but I can't say that for sure.
For what its worth, Taurus does offer you a LIFETIME GUARANTEE! Just send the gun back to them (at your own expense) and wait 6-8 weeks, and your gun will be "as good as new".
What I can say is that anecdotal reports of quality control issues with "Judges" are fairly common (especially cylinder lockup issues, and cylinders falling entirely off, but also misfires, etc). I believe this is now the third thread here I'm reading on "My Brand new Judge is malfunctioning" in the past few months:
Does THIS ring a bell?
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=443252
I don't remember seeing ANY threads of "my brand new Smith or Ruger revolver is malfunctioning" in that time.
For what its worth, there is a review on Judge guns in this months "SWAT" magazine that totally pans them.
One of the bigger criticisms the SWAT author had in testing this gun is that using .410 shells, the primers tended to back out potentially locking up the gun. (I've seen this complaint elsewhere).
Other major criticisms were that birdshot from the gun lacks power and patterns poorly, buckshot has absolutely lousy patterning, and that the .45 Colt rounds offer poor accuracy.
My personal criticisms, including some analysis of the buckshot ballistics from this gun can be seen here:
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4530540 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
Needless to say, the cylinder on your Taurus dislodging is NOT supposed to happen. Its probably a loosened screw in the cylinder rod assembly (see below), but I can't say that for sure.
For what its worth, Taurus does offer you a LIFETIME GUARANTEE! Just send the gun back to them (at your own expense) and wait 6-8 weeks, and your gun will be "as good as new".
What I can say is that anecdotal reports of quality control issues with "Judges" are fairly common (especially cylinder lockup issues, and cylinders falling entirely off, but also misfires, etc). I believe this is now the third thread here I'm reading on "My Brand new Judge is malfunctioning" in the past few months:
Does THIS ring a bell?
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=443252
I don't remember seeing ANY threads of "my brand new Smith or Ruger revolver is malfunctioning" in that time.
For what its worth, there is a review on Judge guns in this months "SWAT" magazine that totally pans them.
One of the bigger criticisms the SWAT author had in testing this gun is that using .410 shells, the primers tended to back out potentially locking up the gun. (I've seen this complaint elsewhere).
Other major criticisms were that birdshot from the gun lacks power and patterns poorly, buckshot has absolutely lousy patterning, and that the .45 Colt rounds offer poor accuracy.
My personal criticisms, including some analysis of the buckshot ballistics from this gun can be seen here:
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=453054
The Judge has a short rifled barrel. It won't pattern like a typical 24" shotgun... it does what it intends to do well when using buckshot.
45LC will not be as accurate as a "regular" revolver because of the distance the bullet travels before engaging the very shallow almost non-existent rifling... again, this is not a target gun nor was it created to be a 45LC gun...
The primer backing out of the round is the fault of the gun? Explain this one to me...0 -
customer came in to pick u his new tarus pt22 with fancy plastic grips..we took it out the back door to the range,,first clip of ammo and the grips,both sides cracked in 3-4 places..not even worth a shnitzel[8] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by fordsix
customer came in to pick u his new tarus pt22 with fancy plastic grips..we took it out the back door to the range,,first clip of ammo and the grips,both sides cracked in 3-4 places..not even worth a shnitzel[8]
It only took one clip, huh? You're a gun shop man... it's a magazine. And if both grips cracked in 3-4 places upon firing I would think there was another issue with the grips... like some monkey over tightening the grip screws to the point of cracking thee grips (if this is even possible) before it was even fired... if you assert it was the firing that caused it you haven't a clue...0 -
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
The Judge has a short rifled barrel. It won't pattern like a typical 24" shotgun
That's putting it mildly.
I pulled this article (its page 66 of the Sept issue of SWAT magazine) and the author of the above mentioned article. Tom Givens, got THIRTY (yes 30) inch patterns with #9 birdshot at 15 feet, with the pattern including a wide hole in the middle he claims a snake could fit into. That makes this gun effectively useless for hunting small game. He also couldn't get the shot to penetrate a plastic water bottle at 15 feet. . .again, not a great sign.
With larger #4 shot, the pattern was a little tighter, but the author couldn't get the gun to penetrate 1/4" plywood. Again, not particularly satisfying performance.
quote:... it does what it intends to do well when using buckshot.
Well, in my opinion the performance with buckshot is marginal.
When people hear "00 buckshot" they're generally thinking of the excellent performance of those buckshot when launched 9-12 at a time from a 12 gauge shotgun.
The problem, as mentioned in the post I linked to above, is that the Judge only fires 3 or 4 70-grain 00 buckshot pellets at 900 fps. That's 1/3 the payload of the 12 gauge at 1/3 less velocity (or roughly half the kinetic energy per pellet). On paper you're only delivering 1/6 the "oomph" of a 12 gauge per shot, though in reality, its probably even less than that, since light pellets tend to offer disproportionately worse penetration at low velocities.
The individual Judge pellets compare nicely to say 70 grain .32 ACP bullets doing about 900 fps. Nobody I know thinks that the .32ACP is a particularly great defensive round. Why should buckshot of the same weight and velocity be that much better?
3-4 of them at once is better than one at a time, but if you get into a fight, do you want three or four 50-lb midgets on your team, or one 200lb weightlifter?
In terms of pattern, the above author got 3-4 inch groups with the special intended-for-Judge-gun buckshot at 15 feet. That's reasonable, though the narrow spread means you still need to aim precisely at close distances. At 7 yards, he got about 6-8" groups. At 15 yards, he couldn't get the pellets to stay on an FBI "Q" target, effectively making the buckshot useless at medium range or further.
quote:45LC will not be as accurate as a "regular" revolver because of the distance the bullet travels before engaging the very shallow almost non-existent rifling... again, this is not a target gun nor was it created to be a 45LC gun...
The problem isn't just that its not a particularly good .45LC gun, its that its also a pretty poor shotgun too. Apart from making good ad copy, this "Judge" doesn't really do ANYTHING well. You get the worst of both worlds in a gun that is bulky, poorly balanced, and with reliability issues.
quote:
The primer backing out of the round is the fault of the gun? Explain this one to me...
It probably IS the fault of the gun due to a combination of recoil and inadequate support for the rear of the shell within the revolver. (If the rear of the shell is properly supported, a primer CAN'T back out). Note that per the article, the author had this problem in particular with .410 slugs, and they tended to jam up his gun making it hard to fire the next round. I've heard of it also happening with other rounds too.
In summary, then in my opinion the Judge is a heavy and poorly balanced gun that suffers from at least two potential reliability issues. Performance with .45LC rounds is adequate, but most likely inferior to that obtainable from other guns of similar cost, size and weight. Performance with shotshells varies from dismal (with birdshot) to marginal (with buckshot) to unreliable (with slugs).
In short, for me this gun really has very little going for it, other than a very small amount of novelty value, and a great marketing campaign.
If you like this gun and/or want to trust your life or that of a family member to it, so be it. Personally, I can't do it. While I'm sure there is worse out there, I just think there are any number of better choices in a defensive gun.0 -
yup vicg clip/mag..gun was in a sealed bag in box, gun was looked at while we did the paperwork grips looked nice.grips basicly shattered...can't wait for the customer to pick up the second one and see what happens when we test it..customer bought off the net,,i do not sell taurus any more after two different shipments from different werehouses guns new in box allready non functional screw um 0 -
My experience similar to CS8161, with return times up to 13 months. I no longer sell Taurus. 0 -
The only Taurus I ever owned...I sold. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
quote:Originally posted by fordsix
customer came in to pick u his new tarus pt22 with fancy plastic grips..we took it out the back door to the range,,first clip of ammo and the grips,both sides cracked in 3-4 places..not even worth a shnitzel[8]
It only took one clip, huh? You're a gun shop man... it's a magazine. And if both grips cracked in 3-4 places upon firing I would think there was another issue with the grips... like some monkey over tightening the grip screws to the point of cracking thee grips (if this is even possible) before it was even fired... if you assert it was the firing that caused it you haven't a clue...
Look...you need to stop trolling the forum. If all you have time to do is troll, and badmouth others, then we quite frankly don't need your expertise here, as you have none. Plain and simple, Taurus quality is spotty at best. If you think something different, you are the one who has not a clue. Like many of the others here, I will not sell a Taurus, let alone buy one.
Best
EDIT 1
quote:It only took one clip, huh? You're a gun shop man... it's a magazine.
quote:The primer backing out of the round is the fault of the gun? Explain this one to me...
not bashing? I have seen it on other post...we don't need the tude!0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
quote:Originally posted by fordsix
customer came in to pick u his new tarus pt22 with fancy plastic grips..we took it out the back door to the range,,first clip of ammo and the grips,both sides cracked in 3-4 places..not even worth a shnitzel[8]
It only took one clip, huh? You're a gun shop man... it's a magazine. And if both grips cracked in 3-4 places upon firing I would think there was another issue with the grips... like some monkey over tightening the grip screws to the point of cracking thee grips (if this is even possible) before it was even fired... if you assert it was the firing that caused it you haven't a clue...
Look...you need to stop trolling the forum. If all you have time to do is troll, and badmouth others, then we quite frankly don't need your expertise here, as you have none. Plain and simple, Taurus quality is spotty at best. If you think something different, you are the one who has not a clue. Like many of the others here, I will not sell a Taurus, let alone buy one.
Best
Yeah, and I bet you believe the story too... both grips cracked into 3-4 pieces while firing 1 mag... if you do you're a bigger fool than your posting alone suggests... and what badmouthing do you speak of? The fact that I pointed out to a gun shop worker that it's a mag and not a clip?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mgderf
I have owned Taurus handguns for more than 20 years. I own at least 8 different models, and this is the FIRST problem I've had with ANY of them.
I've seen pics of S&W's, Colts, Glocks,...blown up, locked up, and generally unserviceable.
It does NOT only happen to Taurus's.
Should have known I find a basher or two here!
Reckon you're a lucky one then.
BTW, it ain't bashing if it's true.0 -
So is the screw loose? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
So is the screw loose?
It sure is John....[:D][:D][:D][:D]0
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