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45 Super

dfletcher
I'm of the old school when it comes to 45 ACP revolvers, I think my most modern one is a 40 year old Smith 25 and I shoot primarily 45 AR using 225 full wadcutters from the thing, my 1917s use RNL at the usual 700 fps or so. A friend of mine just bought a Smith 325 and is interested in getting a bit more bang for his buck. So I've sort of "discovered" the 45 Super and would like to know if that is suitable for use out of a new Smith revolver in 45 ACP.

From what I've read, issues of pressure focus on the unsupported part of the case when used in 1911 type semi autos, this of course isn't an issue in a revolver. Does anyone use this chambering in the 45 ACP Smith revolvers, any tips or advice?
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4 comments

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  • rufe-snow
    It's unpleasant to shoot in a 1911 .45, i.e. 230 grain @ 1100 fps, 200 grain @ 1200 fps & 180 grain @ 1300 fps. Heavy "N" frame Model 25 revolver probably be no problem.


    The Model 29, 44 Mag uses the same "N" frame at much higher velocities.
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  • beantownshootah
    .45 Super is supposed to operate at 28,000 PSI.

    The N-frame smith, as Rufe mentioned, can handle .44 magnum loads at 36,000 PSI, a significantly higher pressure. (Lets leave velocities out of this. . .that's probably not the best way to look at this).

    So while at first glance you'd *THINK* that any N-frame gun should be able to handle the lower .45-Super type pressures, I don't think you can fairly conclude that.

    First of all, the guns aren't exactly comparable, since the .45 uses .452 inch diameter bullets and the .44 magnum uses smaller .429" bullets.

    That means the .45ACP gun is effectively overbored by .023" reducing effective minimum cylinder wall thickness by roughly half that amount. Maybe .0115" is a lot and maybe it isn't but this alone means the .45ACP guns can't be as strong as the .44 magnums.

    So far as I know Smith has never offered a .454 Casull gun built on one of its N-frames.

    Next, and far more important, the Smith .44 magnum N-frames use specially hardened cylinders to handle the .44 magnum pressure. This is probably NOT true of the .45ACP guns, particularly the older ones like your model 1917:

    Per Chuck Hawks:
    quote:
    http://www.chuckhawks.com/high-pressure45.htm

    High pressure loads in other brands or models of guns

    But what about other modern revolvers chambered for the .45 Colt cartridge? For many years Smith & Wesson built a .45 Colt DA revolver on their large "N" frame that looked nearly identical to their .44 Magnum Model 29. I have been asked specifically about this revolver in the past, as their owners sometimes conclude that if the Model 29 can withstand the 36,000 psi (43,500 cup) of a .44 Magnum cartridge, their revolvers should be able to withstand the same pressure. BUT THEY CANNOT!

    The reason is that the Model 29 is made from special alloy steel specially heat treated to withstand .44 Magnum pressures. S&W themselves have put this in writing in their advertisements, and a talk with one of their technicians will confirm it. NEVER use any high pressure .45 Colt load in a S&W revolver. They are designed to handle standard pressure .45 Colt loads ONLY.


    He's talking about .45LC here, not .45ACP, but I think its probably fair to assume the same is true of the .45ACP guns. If you were to ask Smith, I'd bet cash money they'd tell you in no uncertain terms NOT to use overpressure .45 rounds in a 1917 gun.

    Would these be safe from the newer guns? Don't know. Maybe. . .maybe not. Smith would probably tell you no.

    Why take a chance?

    I'd say if you want to shoot high pressure .45 rounds from an N-frame gun get yourself a model 29 and shoot .44 magnum or find yourself a nice Ruger Super-Redhawk in .454 Casull, or alternatively pony up for the Smith .460 monster X-frame, from which .45 Super-like loads will feel like .22s!
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  • dfletcher
    ^^^

    I had similar thoughts regarding the larger diameter case and IIRC Smith does their cylinder bolt cuts right over the center of the chamber so that's quite the thin spot. Sierra has a "revolver only" section for the 45 ACP (not a "Ruger only" section but all revolvers) and I may just go with that instead.

    Just by way of mentioning my foolishness, he does have a 3" Model 29 - I sold it to him for $400.00 a few years ago. Nice to see it's about doubled in value. [:(]
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  • Anonymouse
    I asked S&W about it, a year or so ago. They told me: "If you want more gun, sell the 45ACP and buy the 44 magnum. Do not shoot 45 super out of any of our 45 ACP revolvers."
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