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Differences between Walther PP and PPK

idzgydz
I recently purchased a Walther PP in .380ACP. The gun is in 80%-85% condition overall. I would like to know how the PP differs from the PPK, other than the overall length.

This looks to be an original Manurhin manufactured piece from 1970, but it does have "Ulm/Do." printed on the left side and the "Interarms Alexandria Virginia" import stamp. Is that significant?

The other marking that I question is an Eagle over an "N" on the barrel, slide, and frame. Does anyone know the significance of this marking?

The last mark that I question is on the grip. I don't think the grip is original, because it is checkered wood and has an inset emblem of an Eagle clutching some arrows over the word "SILE".

I paid $475 for the gun. Did I get a deal or get taken?

Thanks,
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Comments

3 comments

Date Votes
  • rufe-snow
    Eagle N is the West German commercial proof mark, even though the parts may have been made in France it still has the German proofs.

    Sile is the name of the defunct U.S. company that made your replacement grips.

    Guns that are 80/85% are generally not thought of as being collector quality. It would be best if you could post quality photos of your pistol for a accurate assessment of value.

    Sight unseen, $475 for a postwar commercial PP @ 80/85%, seems to be top dollar plus to me.
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  • idzgydz
    Thanks for the input.

    I'll see what I can do to post some pics in the next few days, but I saw a couple similar guns at a show here in Miami that were going for $500-$775. A couple that were priced at $500 were not in as good of condition as this one, and the ones priced at $700+ were almost mint, or were limited edition collectors pieces.

    I've been doing a little research since posting, and the clip that I have for the gun has Manurhin written on it, but the barrel has the stag horn proof mark from the Ulm manufacturing facility. I'm not sure if this means that the gun could have been pieced together, or what. I'll post some pics in a couple days and see what people think.

    I wasn't really buying this gun as a collector's piece, but more as what's been descibed to me by a few people as a "collector's grade shooter". It may appreciate some day, but for right now it's just going to be a conversation piece and an occassional shooter/carry gun.
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  • nmyers
    Walthers were originally made in Zella-Mehlis, but the factory was destroyed during WW2. Fritz Walther rebuilt after the war in Ulm-Donau. Most post-war PP-series guns were actually made by Manurhin in France; some they sold directly, but most were marked Walther & shipped to the Ulm-Donau factory for final assembly.

    There are a number of mag variations, including some with finger extension. Markings vary, but a Manurhin marked mag would have been included with a Manurhin marked gun.

    The PP has a larger frame & slide than the PPK. Put a PPK slide on a PP frame, & you have a PPK/S, which was imported for the US market only, after 1968. Interarms was the exclusive US importer in the '60s & 70's.

    While pre-war & WW2 guns are the really collectible ones, one marked Ulm-Donau will also be collectible in really good condion. Manurhin marked guns have been considered shooters; so have well worn guns like yours.

    There is no such thing as paying too much for a gun, just paying it too soon. At least, that's what they always tell me when I overpay for a gun.

    Neal
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