Mark on unfired primer?
On another topic another poster posted this comment:
I don't know about the AK 47, I can't buy one here. The SKS every time I load a round in the chamber the floating firing pin leaves a mark on the primer. When the round is ejected with out firing you can see clearly on both the rifle I have pin marks. I think this is the real reason the Russians put hard primers in the 7.62x39. I also thought that the reason that Ruger did not want the round used in the Mini was the finished size of the chambers was different from the Russian rifles due to expansion rate of the steel round not the primer. I take everyone's word for the primer problem due to hard primers.
Emmett
Edited by - Emmett Dunham on 07/17/2010 8:41:47 PM
/i]
Above in red. Anybody else see something like that? I have see it on a few various firearms, rifles and semiauto. I am wondering if this is a dangerous condition?
I don't know about the AK 47, I can't buy one here. The SKS every time I load a round in the chamber the floating firing pin leaves a mark on the primer. When the round is ejected with out firing you can see clearly on both the rifle I have pin marks. I think this is the real reason the Russians put hard primers in the 7.62x39. I also thought that the reason that Ruger did not want the round used in the Mini was the finished size of the chambers was different from the Russian rifles due to expansion rate of the steel round not the primer. I take everyone's word for the primer problem due to hard primers.
Emmett
Edited by - Emmett Dunham on 07/17/2010 8:41:47 PM
/i]
Above in red. Anybody else see something like that? I have see it on a few various firearms, rifles and semiauto. I am wondering if this is a dangerous condition?
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Depending on various factors most importantly the sensitivity of the primer, it can be a very dangerous situation. It could cause out of battery ignition of primer before bolt has gone all the way forward and locked into receiver.
Not so much with military ammo with insensitive primers, got to be very careful with commercial ammo. Also most U.S. made primers used for reloading. CCI makes special commercial primers for reloading foreign military rifles because of this problem.0 -
Well then what does one do about this if the firing pin is supposed to be "free floating" and is apparently not hanging up on anything but is apparently working as designed?
I wonder is this situation might explain some of the guns blow up that are supposely good guns and comes as a surprise to everyone? I am thinking about one particular manufacturer.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Well then what does one do about this if the firing pin is supposed to be "free floating" and is apparently not hanging up on anything but is apparently working as designed?
I wonder is this situation might explain some of the guns blow up that are supposely good guns and comes as a surprise to everyone? I am thinking about one particular manufacturer.
In my experience, what it boils down to is a dirty firing pin, and gunk on a firing pin that's supposed to free float spells trouble. Keep them clean, and you won't have a problem. There isn't much you can do but hold on if it decides to dump a full clip due to a slam-fire.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Well then what does one do about this if the firing pin is supposed to be "free floating" and is apparently not hanging up on anything but is apparently working as designed?
If you have any misgivings with foreign military rifles that don't have spring loaded firing pins such as the SKS or the French MAS 1949/56. Use only surplus military ammo, or reloads put together with the special CCI insensitive primers.0 -
Or an AR. Mine shows a little mark on every primer when I eject a round without firing. 0 -
A common problem with Yugo SKS's is that they are usually pumped full of grease, & the entire rifle INCLUDING THE BOLT must be taken apart & cleaned before firing. A bolt full of grease can certainly cause the problem described, & worse.
Neal0 -
You guys are addressing 2 DIFFERENT problems here.
Many guns with Free Floating Firing pins leave a small mark on the primer. This is normal on these guns.
The other issue is getting crud built up in the guns with free floating firing pins. In this case the pin can be stuck out and cause an out of battery discharge. This is a PROBLEM.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Your post makes sense. However, in the red above, I myself feel uneasy seeing even a tiny primer dimple in an unfired case I just ejected out of the chamber of any gun. Who is to say that one day that firing pin, which is already obviously contacting the primer, will not hit a primer a little harder than normal or even hit an unusually soft primer and you then will have an accidental discharge.
There is nothing say it wont other then the mass of the firing pin is not heavy enough to set off a primer. This has been happening since at least 1940's with the SKS. Again the guns that this usually happens in are MILITARY firearms that DICTATE the use of HARD military style primers. I have never had a problem using standard CCI primers in any of my guns.
If this was a major problem why is it not on the list of "101 things wrong with the AR-15/M16" that people are so often complaining about?
While I am sure myself and others have done it often I would not suggest loading and unloading the same round on a regular basis.0 -
This may be lawyerspeak, I'm not sure:
The manuals for the civilian M1A's (and some written articles on the M1) stress stripping the round from the rifles' own storage area vice directly inputting a round into the chamber. They both have free-float pins.
Never did the 'pin test' on my M1/M1A's but, as far back as Vietnam, I noticed the little dimple on the M16. I use the forward assist now, and 'walk' the bolt home on my civvy AR.
Above is an observation, FWIW. Best, Joe0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
You guys are addressing 2 DIFFERENT problems here.
Many guns with Free Floating Firing pins leave a small mark on the primer. This is normal on these guns.
The other issue is getting crud built up in the guns with free floating firing pins. In this case the pin can be stuck out and cause an out of battery discharge. This is a PROBLEM.
Your post makes sense. However, in the red above, I myself feel uneasy seeing even a tiny primer dimple in an unfired case I just ejected out of the chamber of any gun. Who is to say that one day that firing pin, which is already obviously contacting the primer, will not hit a primer a little harder than normal or even hit an unusually soft primer and you then will have an accidental discharge.
Now, like 35WhelenClassic says, such an accidental discharge will not likely hurt anyone if you are at the range and have your firearm pointed in a safe direction. But what if you are at home and for various reasons decided to chamber a round and because of the firing pin being able to actual contact (even ever so lightly) the primer, you have a AD and cause damage to your house or injury to a family member.
Now even if you claim to practice ultra-safe gun handling practices and claim this will never happen to you, then just how does a concealed carry holder go about arming up with his semi-auto before leaving his house? Answer is he has to chamber a round in his semi-auto. I have a S&W 40 cal (model 4046 I believe, slide and frame all stainless, double action only, no decocker or safety) and I have occassionally noticed a slight dimple on an unfired primer on a cartridge which I chambered and then ejected by hand.
Frankly this situation worries me. But so do a lot of other things too so what the heck.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
You guys are addressing 2 DIFFERENT problems here.
Many guns with Free Floating Firing pins leave a small mark on the primer. This is normal on these guns.
The other issue is getting crud built up in the guns with free floating firing pins. In this case the pin can be stuck out and cause an out of battery discharge. This is a PROBLEM.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Your post makes sense. However, in the red above, I myself feel uneasy seeing even a tiny primer dimple in an unfired case I just ejected out of the chamber of any gun. Who is to say that one day that firing pin, which is already obviously contacting the primer, will not hit a primer a little harder than normal or even hit an unusually soft primer and you then will have an accidental discharge.
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There is nothing say it wont other then the mass of the firing pin is not heavy enough to set off a primer. This has been happening since at least 1940's with the SKS. Again the guns that this usually happens in are MILITARY firearms that DICTATE the use of HARD military style primers. I have never had a problem using standard CCI primers in any of my guns.
If this was a major problem why is it not on the list of "101 things wrong with the AR-15/M16" that people are so often complaining about?
While I am sure myself and others have done it often I would not suggest loading and unloading the same round on a regular basis.
In blue above. Sounds like good advice. Funny though. Here at work, until they got tired of accidental discharges,(none, I believe while chambering a round) we were required to do that very procedure and I believe most of the guys used the same round over and over. That would be in the S&W M&P 400
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