NEED HELP TO I.D. 3 OLD WHEELIES
An older acquaintance, a Vet, has asked me to identify, evaluate and convert to cash for him, three old revolvers. I've checked the auction side and the few reference books I own. Wheelies are NOT in my diet since I specialize in single shot .22rfs.
One is a nice .38S&W IJ, nickled, minor flaked spots, 3 1/4" bbl, 5-shooter, great bore, locks up well, tight. Great grips, blued trigger guard, case-hardened hammer & trigger. I feel sure Bill Goforth can ID and value this one with no trouble.
Here are dates stamped on left side of barrel.
Next UNKNOWN TO ME nickeled 5-shooter .32S&W, shrouded hammer, grip safety, blued trigger, t-guard and barrel latch. Stamped on top of barrel SECRET SERVICE SPECIAL. Numbered on butt 21004. Action crisp and locks up tight. Dark bore some pitting, excellent grips. Barrel has scratches along barrel on left side nickel. Right side finish excellent.
Has stylized logo either HG or GH (see pic) in right side of receiver and both grips.
Next UNKNOWN TO ME is a little spur trigger, nickeled 5-shooter showing lots of wear, .32S&W, birdshead grip, 2 5/8" octagon barrel stamped PAT. MARCH 28, 1871. Broken mainspring is still inside behind grips and needs to be replaced.
These are the stampings on top of the frame.
Any help identifying and evaluating these old timers will be greatly appreciated, and my thanks in advance.
Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei45
One is a nice .38S&W IJ, nickled, minor flaked spots, 3 1/4" bbl, 5-shooter, great bore, locks up well, tight. Great grips, blued trigger guard, case-hardened hammer & trigger. I feel sure Bill Goforth can ID and value this one with no trouble.
Here are dates stamped on left side of barrel.
Next UNKNOWN TO ME nickeled 5-shooter .32S&W, shrouded hammer, grip safety, blued trigger, t-guard and barrel latch. Stamped on top of barrel SECRET SERVICE SPECIAL. Numbered on butt 21004. Action crisp and locks up tight. Dark bore some pitting, excellent grips. Barrel has scratches along barrel on left side nickel. Right side finish excellent.
Has stylized logo either HG or GH (see pic) in right side of receiver and both grips.
Next UNKNOWN TO ME is a little spur trigger, nickeled 5-shooter showing lots of wear, .32S&W, birdshead grip, 2 5/8" octagon barrel stamped PAT. MARCH 28, 1871. Broken mainspring is still inside behind grips and needs to be replaced.
These are the stampings on top of the frame.
Any help identifying and evaluating these old timers will be greatly appreciated, and my thanks in advance.
Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei45
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That Mountain Eagle spur trigger was made by Hopkins & Allen. They made alot of these little revolvers and stamped them with different brand names (at least 15 ) for various suppliers. Value on this one is kinda on the low side ,especially since it needs repair. If you search Gun Broker for Blue Jacket you should find some like yours. Blue Jacket was one of the more popular names they stamped on the gun. 0 -
Thanks Knifecollector. Any knowledge what the G.W.T.&R. represents? Will start looking for Blue Jackets.
Best regards ~ ~ ~ GGN0 -
hrf knows below, my "guess" wasn't very good, sorry!
"Best guess" on the GWT&R.
Try Great Western Trading & Railroad.
There was a company (I believe from Canada)that owned Great Western Trading Company and a Railroad that ran through Canada and IL I think.
I will be interested in the true experts that know and I will follow the tread. My answer was the only thing that came to mind since many of the railroads had guns made with their name on them, as well as the trading companies at that time.0 -
Thanks for the tip, geeguy. That's the kind of thing I am expecting it to be. Unfortunatel so many of such gun maker customers were simply a flash-in-the-pan and gone. So their true history is overlooked by the history books. Not quite like having a gun marked PROPERY OF WELLS FARGO...
I'll be checking for it.
Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei450 -
quote:Originally posted by geeguy
"Best guess" on the GWT&R.
Try Great Western Trading & Railroad.
There was a company (I believe from Canada)that owned Great Western Trading Company and a Railroad that ran through Canada and IL I think.
I will be interested in the true experts that know and I will follow the tread. My answer was the only thing that came to mind since many of the railroads had guns made with their name on them, as well as the trading companies at that time.
G.W.T.& R. was G. W. Turner & Ross, a large retailer in Boston. The Mountain Eagle is listed and shown in their 1883 catalog @ $2.75
However, it should be .32 rimfire, not .32 S&W0 -
hrf you are correct. My error, it IS rimfire. I did this write-up LATE last night - like 1am! Way past my bedtime...
Thank you for that very helpful info. Do you have any idea who the manufacturer was, and a current fair value? I'm simply NOT in touch with such guns as I'm a .22rf single-shot devotee...
[ONE down, two to go!]
Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei450 -
Number 2 is kind of a rare one, although not particularly valuable. It's a Spanish knock-off of a S & W safety hammerless, made by the Guisasola Brothers of Eibar Spain. The Spanish worth word for brothers is Hermanos, thus the GH monogram. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Shansei45
hrf you are correct. My error, it IS rimfire. I did this write-up LATE last night - like 1am! Way past my bedtime...
Thank you for that very helpful info. Do you have any idea who the manufacturer was, and a current fair value? I'm simply NOT in touch with such guns as I'm a .22rf single-shot devotee...
[ONE down, two to go!]
Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei45
As Knifecollector stated, it was made for Turner & Ross by Hopkins & Allen, and the same patent date appears on various other H&A guns. Value in condition described is low, probably $100 or less.0 -
the iver johnson is a second model manufactured about 1902 or 1903 (the only years they marked the patent dates on the left side of the barrel.
SECOND MODEL SAFETY AUTOMATIC HAMMER REVOLVER
(Black Powder Cartridges)
1896-1908
LARGE FRAME AND SMALL FRAME VERSIONS USES HAMMER THE HAMMER ACTION: Double top post barrel latch, nickel finish standard, blue optional, hard rubber grip panels with Owls head at top. Hammer the Hammer action, two frame sizes, and three calibers. Standard barrel length: small frame 3 inches, large frame 3 ? inches; Calibers: small frame .22 rimfire 7 rounds cylinder capacity, .32 centerfire 5 rounds cylinder capacity, large frame .38 centerfire 5 rounds cylinder capacity; Weight: small frame with 3 inch barrel .22 rimfire 12 ounces, .32 centerfire 12 ? ounces, large frame with 3 ? inch barrel 17? ounces; Frame height: small frame 3 ? inches, large frame 3 7/8 inches; Frame length: small frame 4 3/26 inches, large frame 5 inches; Overall length: small frame with 3 inch barrel 6 3/8 inches, large frame with 3 ? inch barrel 7 3/8 inches. Only difference between the first and second model is the barrel latch. Main serial number location on left side of grip frame grips must be removed to see. The Second Model features a double top post barrel latch, flat leaf hammer spring and two cross pins in the lower frame.
VALUE: 100%=$275 60%=$135
For revolvers equipped with Bourne Knuckleduster add 100%
the Secret Service Special was made for the Fred Biffar Co. of chicago. "Secret Service Special" was a registered name of Fred Biffar. rufe snow answer about it being made by Guisaola Brothers is of interest because i have been searching for the manufacturer of the Spanish secret service specials for some time. however in the book pistol of the world 3rd edition it list Guisaola Brothers as selling pistols and revolvers that are almost identical to those of Gabilondo (makers of the later day Llamas). this is information that is going to have to be checked out before i can say for sure who the manufacturer is. it is believed these spanish made SSS were the last manufactured in the mid to late 1920's.
SECRET SERVICE SPECIAL HAMMERLESS
(manufactured for FRED BIFFAR Co.)
1912-????
LARGE FRAME AND SMALL FRAME DOES NOT HAVE HAMMER THE HAMMER ACTION: This revolver is the same as the U.S. Revolver Co. Automatic Hammerless model only the markings on the barrel and the grips are different. The grips and barrel markings are the same as the hammer model. This revolver Brand name is sold only through Fred Biffar Co. of Chicago. Main serial number location on left side of grip frame grips must be removed to see.
VALUE: Iver Johnson: manufacture same as U. S. Revolver Co. equivalent
H&R Arms Co. manufacture 10% less than U. S. Revolver Co. equivalent
H&A Firearms Co. manufacture 15% less than U. S. Revolver Co. equivalent
Meriden Firearms Co. manufacture 20% less than U. S. Revolver Co. equivalent
Unknown Spanish manufacture 25% less than U. S. Revolver Co. equivalent
U.S.Revolver Co. VALUE: 100%=$225 60%=$105
bill0 -
I believe the Secret Service Special shown was made by Orbea Hermanos of Spain, who made many copies of different S&W revolvers. The grip logo and trademark on the frame appear identical to those shown here:
http://littlegun.be/arme espagnole/ancien artisan/a orbea hermanos gb.htm0 -
quote:Originally posted by hrf
I believe the Secret Service Special shown was made by Orbea Hermanos of Spain, who made many copies of different S&W revolvers. The grip logo and trademark on the frame appear identical to those shown here:
http://littlegun.be/arme espagnole/ancien artisan/a orbea hermanos gb.htm
Although very similar in appearance, the monograms aren't the same. The book "Gunmarks" by David Byron shows both monograms side by side, i.e. Orbea & Guisasola. The revolver pictured in this thread definitely has the Guisasola monogram.0 -
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
Although very similar in appearance, the monograms aren't the same. The book "Gunmarks" by David Byron shows both monograms side by side, i.e. Orbea & Guisasola. The revolver pictured in this thread definitely has the Guisasola monogram.
Thanks rufe-snow, Orbea is well known but there seems to be little mention of Guisasola. I wonder if he copied Orbea's copies!0
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