Barrel break-in a myth?
I grew up hearing that you should always break in a new barrel. Every gunsmith or shooter I ever ran across re-enforced this school of thought. I was looking online at different break in procedures and ran across this:
http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn.asp
Some excerpts if you don't wanna read the whole post:
"The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in ever barrel he shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap?. His answer was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20 rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you are spending during break in "
"Look at it this way, A barrel starts out with nice sharp areas of the corners of the rifling . Along the way you build a big fire in it a few thousand times and it burns the corners off. Now take a barrel that to break in you put an abrasive on a patch and run it in and out. The result is that you take the corners off the rifling so that all that fire which would have started with sharp rifling is now starting with rifling that is thousands of rounds old. Which means that a lot of the life is gone. A lap always cuts more on each end where the compound reverses direction as it starts back through the barrel which means that it is enlarging the bore at each ends of the barrel. And last picture a patch riding along the barrel with abrasive on it. It is removing material at a given rate. It comes to a place where there is copper fouling and it rides over it cutting the same amount that it was cutting before it came to the copper. You continue until all the fouling is gone and what have you done? You have put the came contour in the barrel steel that was in it when it was metal fouled. It would not be as bad if it were used on a lead lap but I ask why would you want to abuse the barrel when you can accomplish the same thing without the bad side effects. There is Sweats, Otters foul out or just a good daily cleaning with a good bore cleaner till the fouling is gone. To top this off I will relate a true happening. I built a bench rest rifle for a customer and as usual I fired 5 groups of 5 shots and calculated the aggregate. It was good enough to see that the rifle was capable of winning the Nationals so I shipped it. I got a call from the new owner saying how happy he was with it the way it shot. About 4 weeks later the rifle showed up with a note saying it wouldn't shoot. Sure enough when I tested it it was shooting groups three times the size if the ones I had shot before I shipped it. When I bore scoped it the barrel looked like a mirror and the rifling wasn't square it was half round. From that time on I put a flyer in each gun saying if any abrasive was use in it voided the Warrantee. Now I am not trying to stop you from doing what you want but just inform you what is happening when you use JB. Brass brushes are softer than barrel steel and does no harm. S/S brushes are harder than barrel steel is definetly a no no. Nylon may surprise you to know is very abrasive If you doubt this look at the carbide eye on yout fishing rod where nylon line has worn groves into it. "
http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn.asp
Some excerpts if you don't wanna read the whole post:
"The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in ever barrel he shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap?. His answer was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20 rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you are spending during break in "
"Look at it this way, A barrel starts out with nice sharp areas of the corners of the rifling . Along the way you build a big fire in it a few thousand times and it burns the corners off. Now take a barrel that to break in you put an abrasive on a patch and run it in and out. The result is that you take the corners off the rifling so that all that fire which would have started with sharp rifling is now starting with rifling that is thousands of rounds old. Which means that a lot of the life is gone. A lap always cuts more on each end where the compound reverses direction as it starts back through the barrel which means that it is enlarging the bore at each ends of the barrel. And last picture a patch riding along the barrel with abrasive on it. It is removing material at a given rate. It comes to a place where there is copper fouling and it rides over it cutting the same amount that it was cutting before it came to the copper. You continue until all the fouling is gone and what have you done? You have put the came contour in the barrel steel that was in it when it was metal fouled. It would not be as bad if it were used on a lead lap but I ask why would you want to abuse the barrel when you can accomplish the same thing without the bad side effects. There is Sweats, Otters foul out or just a good daily cleaning with a good bore cleaner till the fouling is gone. To top this off I will relate a true happening. I built a bench rest rifle for a customer and as usual I fired 5 groups of 5 shots and calculated the aggregate. It was good enough to see that the rifle was capable of winning the Nationals so I shipped it. I got a call from the new owner saying how happy he was with it the way it shot. About 4 weeks later the rifle showed up with a note saying it wouldn't shoot. Sure enough when I tested it it was shooting groups three times the size if the ones I had shot before I shipped it. When I bore scoped it the barrel looked like a mirror and the rifling wasn't square it was half round. From that time on I put a flyer in each gun saying if any abrasive was use in it voided the Warrantee. Now I am not trying to stop you from doing what you want but just inform you what is happening when you use JB. Brass brushes are softer than barrel steel and does no harm. S/S brushes are harder than barrel steel is definetly a no no. Nylon may surprise you to know is very abrasive If you doubt this look at the carbide eye on yout fishing rod where nylon line has worn groves into it. "
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This was kind of a sore spot with Gale, I had been told that story a couple of times by him. The whole break in thing just adds wear & tear on the bore. Many people contend that break in is required to reduce fouling in the future or some other reason........if a barrel is made properly, it shouldn't have these problems.
The other thing that would set him off was barrel fluting. Sometimes I would get a rifle to stock that had a fluted barrel, if I would see Gale coming through the shop I'd call him over to take a look at "this really slick barrel"........I got cussed at several times over that.....LMAO0 -
There are several threads and posts in the Experts Forum, on this very subject. I would suggest that you do read them...very closely, and carefully.
I would assure that notable barrel makers have a bit of time and $$ to spend researching, and to make their products more competitively and economically than their competitors. In doing so, I am reasonably sure they have ran testing of barrels that were not broken in, vs. barrels that were broken in. 95% or better of all barrel manufacturers have a reccommended barrel brake in procedure. So it all boils down to, who knows better...the guy making the barrels, or the one shooting his mouth off that it is just hype about barrel break in?
When you are done there, skip on over to a bench rest forum, and ask the same questions. Then drop back in and share with us what you found.
quote:Tailgunner1954
Advanced Member
6358 Posts
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 07:35:12 AM
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Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
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Best
EDIT
quote:
Originally posted by oscat271
I would have to think that of all the hundreds? of different barrels
that are on weapons I have shot NONE were "broken in".
These range from military weapons to hunting,target and others.
When I first heard of that I had my doubts.
ANY sharp corners or burrs will be imbedded in the bullet jacket and
removed.
I do believe that barrels will have their lives shortened by excessive
or improper cleaning.
tsr1965, Who pissed in your Wheaties, and why are you such a grump?
I am just speaking from experience, and some of the other experts on here have similar experience...like JustC, sandwarrior, and Nononsense. All of them guys like myself, who have and do use premium barrels, and have tried it both ways, and can tell you it DOES make a difference.
I see from your post, you never have tried breaking in a barrel to any procedure. So then, how can you tell if it does make a difference?
BTW...I try to be tactful when I relay my experience, but I do not sugar coat things like a liberal.
Best
Jonk...keep on running that sandpaper thru your barrel...are you trying to make your rifle group or pattern?
He Dog,
You are correct, in that it is all opinion...just adding experience to the mix, and not telling anyone what to do. However the question was asked. If you don't understand metallurgy, and metal forming, you wouldn't have a clue anyway.
What a proper barrel break in procedure does, is makes a barrel more consistant. It does so by polishing any micro, or nano burrs off the rifling, and also lays the grain structure down when burnishing any cutter chatter, from cut rifling. Assuming you have consistancy in your bullets and loads, this helps give consistant pressures, and bearing surfaces, thus enhancing shot to shot consistancy.
Most people do not realize that barrels are directional, and should only be cleaned from the breach to the muzzle, or otherwise, fouling gets pushed back into the grain structure of the barrel steel. Barrels are always installed with the direction the rifling was cut from the breach to the muzzle.
There is no wrong or right, as to break in, or not break in for some. I just know what experience, and advice from other's like those mentioned, has taught me.0 -
I would have to think that of all the hundreds? of different barrels
that are on weapons I have shot NONE were "broken in".
These range from military weapons to hunting,target and others.
When I first heard of that I had my doubts.
ANY sharp corners or burrs will be imbedded in the bullet jacket and
removed.
I do believe that barrels will have their lives shortened by excessive
or improper cleaning.
tsr1965, Who pissed in your Wheaties, and why are you such a grump?0 -
I always felt it a myth. There may be some sharp edges or chatter marks from manufacture but those would be shot out by just shooting the gun anyhow, or if you're set on it, lap them out with a firelap or handlap job. Far less irritating than fire a shot, clean, fire a shot, clean routine. 0 -
Those that want to break in barrels can do so. Those that don't won't. No one really needs to tell anyone else which to do or which is better. So far as I can tell, it is all opinion anyway. I have never seen convincing, scientific evidence one way or the other. 0 -
I have a couple of aftermarket barrels that I "broke in" by the manufacturer's recommendations.
The thing is, by the time I had run through the break in rituals shooting and cleaning, I had a hundred yard zero and a chronograph table for figuring longer range come-ups. So it was shooting that I would have done anyway. There was no waste of barrel life and I doubt a polished cleaning rod going through a guide did much wear of its own. All it consumed was a little extra time and some patches.
If I had a McMillan barrel, I would not break it in.
If I had a Scheumann barrel, I would not even clean it, per the maker's own practice.
But Kreiger said break it in, so I did. I don't think it a nefarious plot to wear out a barrel sooner so he could sell me another. It was only 13 shots, anyhow.
He Dog, I think the idea is that the burrs and tool marks affected by breakin are so fine that even a copper alloy jacket will rub them off. Krieger says the main area is the chamber throat where the reamer puts marks across the rifling; that they lap the tube smooth.0 -
Break-in procedure? I don't need no stinkin' break-in procedure (line from Sierra Madre movie)
Just take the gun out of the box and start enjoying it! And guess what? At some point, the barrel will be broken in!
Two plusses for the price of one! Voila! What a wonderful concept!
Opinions abound...and I've just given one.
Best, Joe0 -
If you are not going to take advantage of that small amount of accuracy that breaking in a barrel can afford you then it is a waste of time. If you are, then it's not a waste of time. Breaking in a barrel may or may not give you a .1 out of a .2 barrel...or better. But it's worth doing if it does. What it won't do is give you a .1 barrel from a .5 barrel. Something needs to change in the way the barrel was finished in the first place. The other thing breaking in a barrel can do by smoothing out all those tiny little marks is keep the fouling down so the accuracy between cleanings extends out. But, as I already noted. High quality precision barrel making today takes most of that out. That wasn't done twenty-plus years ago.
As most of you know the manufacturing processes can leave very small marks in a barrel. In todays extreme performance barrels they are lapped laboriously (by machine) until those marks have all but disappeared. But even when those are polished out they leave even smaller marks. What the break-in does is bare this metal and let each of the first five bullets hit these imperfections without any fouling to protect them. So in essence all you are doing is giving the barrel one last "hot polish" or burnishing.
I think the thing most of us, even us barrel breaker-inners, don't agree with, (in fact I cringe) is someone who spends 8-10 hours breaking in a barrel. It really shouldn't take more than 25-35 shots. If it takes more than that you have problems that a break-in isn't going to help. And yes, you can chrono loads, run ladders etc. All the normal stuff you do just clean in between the first bunch of shots.
Shoot one, clean for five shots. Then shoot five and clean until barrel comes clean in 4-5 patches after you've gotten the solvent out (2-3 patches). And, FWIW, I use a Dewey coated rod with a brass jag and nylon brushes. So, I'm not hurting my barrel. I won't ever suggest using a screw together steel rod for cleaning barrels.0 -
I am certainly not a metallurgist, but it puzzles me how a lead for copper or gelding metal bullet polishes much harder steel. 0
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