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FFL transfer

delsoul
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Comments

15 comments

Date Votes
  • delsoul
    Is there a difference between a gunsmith ffl and a dealer ffl? I've had a gunsmith do transfers for me before, and I just won an item on gunbroker, and the seller tells me that they need a dealer ffl. What is the difference.
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  • mark christian
    Don't count on it being shipped back because wholesalers and most dealers won't allow any firearm returns simply because the end consumer was denied purchase approval. A private seller might have a tender heart and offer a refund, but I would not hold my breath. As a dealer I've been down this road a few times: Special orders are paid for up front and if the customer can't take delivery; denied approval, kids need braces, hot water heater at home explodes (that one is a favorite!) he gets back 80% of his money and I keep the gun. This is agreed to before the gun is even ordered.
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  • martinicadet
    The customer needs to make arrangements to return it, get the receiving FFL copy and pay the shipping. I had one that was denied, he waited to come in until after the inspection period was over and seller refused to take it back. He told me a coworker would buy it from him and I needed to transfer it to that guy. Told him that smelled like a straw purchase. Gave him two options, I would list it on GB or transfer it to any FFL he wanted and they could transfer it to his buddy. It's still listed on GB. Don
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  • iwannausername
    The customer still owns it - he just isn't allowed to take possession of it. So either dealer is really nice and offers to hold it while he works out whatever caused the denial and then transfer it, or he offers to sell on consignment, etc.
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  • David Nunn
    If a customer ordered a gun from a seller on Gunbroker, and I received it, and then the customer was denied by NICS, and could not reverse the denial, I might:

    1. See if the seller would accept it back and offer a refund, with the seller paying for shipping.

    2. Offer to list the gun for sale on Gunbroker on consignment. The buyer will get his money, if and when the gun sells, minus auction fees and my commission.

    3. If the gun is something I could use or sell easily, I might try to work a deal with the denied buyer to pay him for his interest in it.

    Now, if I ship a gun to another dealer for transfer to a buyer on his end, and if that buyer is denied by NICS, and wants to return it, I will accept return of the gun, but the buyer pays return shipping and the refund will reflect a 20% restocking fee.
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  • Jim Rau
    quote:Originally posted by nunn
    If a customer ordered a gun from a seller on Gunbroker, and I received it, and then the customer was denied by NICS, and could not reverse the denial, I might:

    1. See if the seller would accept it back and offer a refund, with the seller paying for shipping.

    2. Offer to list the gun for sale on Gunbroker on consignment. The buyer will get his money, if and when the gun sells, minus auction fees and my commission.

    3. If the gun is something I could use or sell easily, I might try to work a deal with the denied buyer to pay him for his interest in it.

    Now, if I ship a gun to another dealer for transfer to a buyer on his end, and if that buyer is denied by NICS, and wants to return it, I will accept return of the gun, but the buyer pays return shipping and the refund will reflect a 20% restocking fee.


    What he said. I haven't had it happen yet but I have thought about how to handle it if it does.[;)]
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  • tsr1965
    Mark, and NUNN have it right, although they might be a little to kind hearted.

    In my minds eye, the end consumer has the responsibility to make sure he can own the gun, and can pass the NICS check. If he ordersit anyway, then I can say there should be some educational $$$ Scalping going on...restocking fee, auction cost, EDUCATIONAL fee's.

    It is only the dealer's responsibility to make sure that the "Actual Buyer" fills out the 4473, and passes the NICS check...no different than what it would be if the FFL owned the gun.

    Best

    MW,

    Under scrutiny of the BATFE, they would most likely still see this as a "STRAW PURCHASE", if a third party became involved at the recieving FFL's.

    Best
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  • MIKE WISKEY
    the only other option I can see is if the refused buyer would sell his intrest in the firearm to a third party and provide a copy of a bill of sale to the ffl holding the firearm. then the ffl could transfer it to the third party.
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  • Mooseyard
    quote:Originally posted by MIKE WISKEY
    the only other option I can see is if the refused buyer would sell his intrest in the firearm to a third party and provide a copy of a bill of sale to the ffl holding the firearm. then the ffl could transfer it to the third party.


    No way would I do that. Straw purchase will get your FFL pulled quick!
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  • sandwarrior
    delsoul,

    That one is really about customer service and nothing else. There is no law stating what must happen then. Technically, the firearm belongs to the buyer, which he can't take possession of. The receiving FFL is now responsible for storing it. Which he agreed to when he sent his ffl to the seller.
    A good customer service dealer would work something out in which the buyer would receive what money is left over after he pays the expenses to "make it right". Which would include returning it, or selling it there. I would certainly charge him the transfer fee anyway. And have it stated in writing on the transfer agreement that the fee is paid whether the buyer is cleared or not.

    A not so good customer service dealer could say, (he may have to have this in writing), if a firearm is left over thirty/sixty/ninety days then it's his. You may need to sign the agreement and pay at the time the FFL goes over the fax. Of course then legally the buyer should still have the right to ship it back.

    The other option of a third party, which Mike Whiskey described, is if the original buyer sold his interest to either the dealer or a third party and that goes through the NICS check. As noted however, if the dealer even hears that the third party is going to sell it to the original denied buyer, then that would constitute a straw purchase, and be illegal. I wouldn't be the dealer doing that deal. If I were to buy the firearm as a dealer then I'd wait ten days before selling it.

    Anyway you look at it. If a buyer doesn't clear NICS check it should cost them, not the people in the business doing them a service.

    Edit:

    Just to clarify, what MW described is not a straw purchase. It's only a straw purchase if he knows said third party will sell it to denied buyer.
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  • glockman40sw
    Your between a rock and a hard place. You won't sell to a third party which I agree with and the person who was to recieve it can't pass the back ground check. My guess is that the seller already has his money and is probably not real interested in buying it back. So your options are the guy on your end has to try and cleanup his problem which he may not be able to do or you'll end up having to take ownership of the gun somehow and sell it on consignment and get your fees that way. Either way it isn't going to be easy. If the orginal owner would take back the gun and send the other guy his money, less your fees, and pay return shipping, etc. it would be alot easier, but I don't think that it is going to work out that way. Maybe if the orignal owner retained a certain amount of the original selling price he would be more apt to take it back. Good luck.
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  • Roberts Gunsmithing

    Reviving with a different scenario;

    Buyer is denied, told his options, and never returns communication of his intent.

    He is never heard from after that. Communications fail. Gun sits in inventory. Seller does not accept returns.

    It's taking up space. What would you do?

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  • Grasshopper

    maybe set it back for a year and if nothing changes sell it?

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  • toad67

    Most shops that I've been to say that any item left over 90 days will be sold.

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  • David Nunn

    I've actually had this happen, once.

    Goofy lady ordered pistol from/through Bud's and had it shipped to me. NICS denied the transfer. I gave the lady appeal info but she either didn't attempt it or the appeal was denied.

    She had paid for the pistol with a credit card. I would have bought it from her at a steep discount, but she didn't like the idea. I contacted Bud's and they were pretty reasonable about it. They sent a return label, so I returned the gun to them. Bud's charged the lady a very steep re-stocking fee, which she wasn't happy about, but she had little choice.

    BTW, I did ask her why she was denied. She said she should not have been denied, that she had killed her ex-husband, but it was self-defense and she was no-billed by the Grand Jury.

    Goofy lady, and I don't expect to see her again.

    6

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