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Winchester 62???

huntsman53
Hey Folks,

Has anyone ever seen or heard of a Winchester Model 62 with a Buttstock that has a similar appearance as a Buttstock on a Pigeon Grade Winchester Model 12? I am sure that Winchester made Custom Guns in the Model (Model 62) but I have never seen or heard of a one with such a Buttstock until yesterday! Yesterday, I had the pleasure to hold and view a nice Pre-War Model 62 that has the normal small Corn Cob Forearm with the normal Winchester Oil Finish but it had a very high grade and gloss finished Buttstock that is similar in appearance to a Model 12 Pigeon Grade Buttstock. I have the opportunity to purchase the rifle but it is doubtful that they would let me disassemble it to see if the forearm, buttstock and other parts have matching Serial Numbers. The bluing is close to 90 to 95% and the forearm and buttstock would be 95% or better...although the buttstock does not appear to have the original buttplate.

Any help would be highly appreciated!


Thanks...Frank
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Comments

11 comments

Date Votes
  • tsr1965
    Hello Frank,

    To be the most helpful, we would definately need to see well lit, and close up pictures of the rifle. Pictures of both the buttstock, and forearm, the reciever, and all markings, especially the proof's, model number stampings, and patents.

    At this time, without the pictures, and guessing, I would have to say the gun is not original condition, of any percentage, and would be worth $250.00-400.00 as a shooter, depending on condition, and having a good bore.

    Best
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  • Bert H.
    Hello Frank,

    I echo tsr1956's thoughts on this... and I also sincerely doubt that the butt stock is original.

    The various parts you mentioned are not serial numbered, though if they were factory original they might have matching "assembly" or work order numbers on them.
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  • huntsman53
    Thanks for the replies so far! Since I do no own the rifle yet, pictures are pretty much out of the question! I understand what you are saying and know that it would be hard to give any assessment with what little information I offered. I will say this, if the buttstock on the Rifle is not original, then it was fitted by a Master Gunstock Maker. The buttstock was a perfect fit with no small or even minor gaps that you would normally see on a gun, where a buttstock was cut or modifed to fit a certain gun! All I can offer is a view of what quality the buttstock looks like by viewing the buttstock in the Auction at the following link, although the one on the Winchester Model 62 is quite a bit darker wood: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=177378494


    Thanks...Frank
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  • Bert H.
    Hello Frank,

    Winchester would have made a matching slide handle stock to go with the butt stock if it were factory original. The fact that the two pieces of wood do not match, and that the butt stock does not have an original Winchester butt plate on it both very stongly point to custom (non-factory) work. There are at least several hundred very talented stock makers located around the country.
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  • huntsman53
    Well, let's try this again! I typed up a long Post but lost everything, so I will try again.

    Well, I went and checked out the so-called Winchester Model 62 real well! The Rifle is sweeet to say the least with a smooth but really tight action, in really nice condition with super nice bore and clean for it's age. I checked out all of the markings (stampings) on the rifle and wrote down the Serial Number but knew right away that something was amiss. The Serial Number is 681830 A and only around 409,475 Model 62's were produced. Also, besides the Buttstock having a high gloss finish (more on that later), it was quite a bit different than all of the Model 62's I have seen. I went back home and called Browning/Winchester's Customer Service and you will be amazed at what I found out! After going over it and explaining in length to the Customer Service Rep. that the Rifle was clearly marked on the barrel as a Model 62 .22 S/L/LR, that it has a small Corncob forearm, a Buttstock that does not match a Model 62 and gave him the Serial Number, he left for awhile to do some research. When he came back, he stated that the Rifle was a transition piece produced from leftover or re-worked parts for the Model 1906 rifles and the going into production Model 62 rifles. It is well known that the Model 1906 rifles were produced several years beyond the listed Production Years and this Rifle was apparently produced during the transition from the Model 1906 and Model 62 rifles with parts from both. It appears that it was produced using a Model 1906 receiver and action, an unknown but similar buttstock to the Model 1906 and a slide, forearm, magazine tube and barrel for a Model 62. He also stated that they have no records showing this transition and mating of parts. However, since I put the rifle on layaway, I plan to contact the Cody Museum to see if they can shed more light on the Rifle as they obtained and maintain much more Records than most folks know of!

    As far as the mystery about the high grade, high gloss Buttstock is concerned, it has been solved! Apparently during some point in the Rifle's life, someone (non-Factory and non-Professional) decided to refinish the buttstock in a high gloss finish due it being of such high grade Walnut with really nice grain and swirls in it. To be honest, the grain and swirls in the buttstock are even better than the high grade buttstock found at the link that I provided in my' second Post on this subject. I will say that I am odds on whether to refinish the small Corncob forearm in the same high gloss finish as the buttstock or to re-do the buttstock in it's original oil finish! If you could see the buttstock, you would understand my delimma as the grain and swirls in the buttstock are really that nice and beautiful!

    Once I have paid the layaway off and have the Rifle in my possession, I will try to take some pics and post them here on the forum. In the meantime, I will pose a couple of questions to the Experts! If the Winchester Customer Service Rep. was correct in his assessment of this Rifle, would this be significant when considering the value of the Rifle and it's collectibility? What Model designation would be given to such a hybrid, Model 1906/62 or other?


    Thanks...Frank
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  • tsr1965
    Hi Frank,

    quote:would this be significant when considering the value of the Rifle and it's collectibility?

    It absolutely would be considered. Instead of being a 1906, or a 62, it is actually neither. That would mean it is not a Hybrid, but a mongrel. When it comes right down to it, both the 1906, and 62 are refinements of the 1890, if there is such a thing as a refinement. The only value it would have, is as a shooter, not a collector. If you are paying a collector price for it, then do not expect to get collector price for it if you decide to sell it. It will fool no one who seriously collects Winchester's. The 1906's, and 62's are not scarce to start with, and there is a good selection to start with. Take a look on the auction side, and see. You will also be able to judge from auctions that have sold, what the going value of the market bears.

    Best

    EDIT 1

    Frank, the name is tsr1965, or Tim...not Best.

    Secondly, I am sure someone with eyes like yourself would see it as more than a shooter. Howeveer, a collector of Winchester's will not see it for anything other than what it is...that is a $200.00-300.00 shooter, depending on condition.

    Best,
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  • huntsman53
    Best,

    Thanks for your insight! I would however, hope that someone would see it as much more than just a Shooter! It is a Pre-War, produced...probably in 1934 or early in 1935 and most folks should take that into consideration...especially since the Blue Book says to add 30% to Pre-War Model 62 values. Considering that I am buying the Rifle at less than the value for a Model 62 in 90% and less than the value of a Model 1906 in 60%, I would hope that if I ever sell the Rifle, that I could at least get my' money back out of it and possible realize some premium!


    Frank
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  • Bert H.
    Let me clear up a few things...

    The information provided to you by the "Browning/Winchester's Customer Service" is not accurate.

    If it has an "A" following the serial number, it is a Model 1890 receiver versus a Model 1906 (which were marked with a "B").

    Serial number 681830 was manufactured on December 5th, 1922. As such, what you have is a rebuilt Model 90. It is not a "transition" piece.
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  • perry shooter
    Huntsman If I may be so bold as to offer you my opinion . Bert H has a lot of information that is NOT available to the rest of us. He spends his vacation each year at the CODY Museum researching Winchester rifles . It seems to me that you have seen a rifle that that you are smitten with .BUT when you got information from different Known people that have examined Thousands of Winchester Rifle and they ALL tell you it is a shooter not a collector grade rifle YOU don't want to accept the fact that even though you really think this is a SPECIAL rifle NO ONE else is smitten. YMMV
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  • huntsman53
    All,

    I respect all of your opinions, knowledge and wisdom! However, I don't appreciate the tone! I know it is hard to say what you mean via a forum or chat and come across without being condescending but that is the way I took some of the comments. Hell, I have made mistakes before and probably will do so again and again but don't rub it in! I once belonged to a Gun Forum where folks would Post to find out how much their' inherited Double Barrel Shotgun is worth and there were a few certain members of the forum, that felt it was their task to tell these poor folks, that their' inherited Double Barrel Shotgun was a worthless broomstick. Is that the way an informative Gun Forum should be run or be known for??

    It is more than likely just wishful thinking but the same scenario could be the case with a Model 1890 and Model 62 mating as in the one posed by the Browning/Winchester Customer Service Rep! With many extra parts left over, Winchester produced many Rifles during the so-called clean-up process. Therefore, it is possible that Model 1890 parts were mated with Model 1906 parts and possibly Model 62 parts. If during the Production process, a part or parts are rejected and then possibly re-worked at the end of the Production Cycle of a Model and built into a Rifle...even if they had to use parts from a Rifle in the startup Production. Now, if Bert H. has information on a Winchester Model 1890 rifle with the Serial Number "681830 A" being produced on a said Date and shipped on a said Date, then I would know positively, that this Rifle is not a transition piece. It really does not matter anyways, as I believe no matter what the case, someone will purchase it what I am paying for it, if I ever decide to sell it!


    Thanks...Frank
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  • Bert H.
    Hello Frank,

    I can positively guarantee you that serial number 681830 A is a Model 90 that was originally manufactured on December 5th, 1922, and that it was not originally a "parts clean-up" rifle. The Model 90 parts clean-up did not begin until after the Model 62 was introduced in early 1932 (10-years later than when serial number 681830 A was manufactured).

    I can also guarantee you that very very few people will ever see it as more than just a "shooter". You might well be one of those rare people.

    What you truly need to understand, is that none of the serious Winchester collectors will ever be interested in a non-factory modified Model 90 rifle... and that is precisely what you are looking at.

    Additionally, none of us here have any stake in the rifle what-so-ever... you are the only person invloved that has an interest in it. As Perry has stated, you are the sole person who is smitten with it... as such, and in my opinion, your judgement is clouded concerning the rifle. You came here and asked us for our professional opinion, and you have received it. What you choose to do with it is your choice alone.

    My comments were never intended to be "condenscending"... just simply factual.
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