Follow Up to Winchester 1885 Thread.....
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=462617
OK, Just got off the phone and I feel like a major dumbass. I have read Campells books (volumes 1 & 2) cover to cover and still did'nt get it. Bert has a steak dinner for 2 coming. As many of you know Bert is a leading expert on the model 1885 and just got home from another 2 weeks of work at the Cody firearms Museum. Here are the problems with this gun!
1. There should be no proof mark on a case colored frame.
2. case coloring is indeed "too tight" like 1873 man said (1873man is on another forum).
http://www.winchestercollector.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=19237#19237
3. Barrel has no VP proof
4. Fore end metal should NOT be case colored.
5. Checkering is way wrong, too deep of V in stock, shouldnt be squared at bottom, the border should not go into the frame.
6. pistol grip cap has way too much wear for a new gun like that.
7. The butt plate is Waaay to shiney and looks like chrome.
8. the wood to metal fit at the lower tang is not "Winchester" tight.
I think I got it all and I am truly humbled by the wealth of knowledge. It is the difference between just being able to read about them and being able to handle them on a regular basis.
I also want to extend my appologies to the seller who may also have been ripped on this gun, If he is truly a man of his word he had no knowledge of what has happened.
If he did this and was trying to pass it off, then I hope I saved someone.
Thanks again Bert, and I hope many learn by my mistake. Todd
[here is the one from 1907 that shows Berts obserbations:
Proof marks on both frame and barrel in 1907 ( none when case colored)
Marks on forearm from palm rest hitting it. (unless gun is mint you will find these on a scheutzen)
Rounded checkering at grip cap. and good Winchester fitted cap.
Checkering not extending into the frame, and darkened from age.
Triangle checkering pattern when there is a palm rest.
Nickle plating is not "mirror bright"
OK, Just got off the phone and I feel like a major dumbass. I have read Campells books (volumes 1 & 2) cover to cover and still did'nt get it. Bert has a steak dinner for 2 coming. As many of you know Bert is a leading expert on the model 1885 and just got home from another 2 weeks of work at the Cody firearms Museum. Here are the problems with this gun!
1. There should be no proof mark on a case colored frame.
2. case coloring is indeed "too tight" like 1873 man said (1873man is on another forum).
http://www.winchestercollector.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=19237#19237
3. Barrel has no VP proof
4. Fore end metal should NOT be case colored.
5. Checkering is way wrong, too deep of V in stock, shouldnt be squared at bottom, the border should not go into the frame.
6. pistol grip cap has way too much wear for a new gun like that.
7. The butt plate is Waaay to shiney and looks like chrome.
8. the wood to metal fit at the lower tang is not "Winchester" tight.
I think I got it all and I am truly humbled by the wealth of knowledge. It is the difference between just being able to read about them and being able to handle them on a regular basis.
I also want to extend my appologies to the seller who may also have been ripped on this gun, If he is truly a man of his word he had no knowledge of what has happened.
If he did this and was trying to pass it off, then I hope I saved someone.
Thanks again Bert, and I hope many learn by my mistake. Todd
[here is the one from 1907 that shows Berts obserbations:
Proof marks on both frame and barrel in 1907 ( none when case colored)
Marks on forearm from palm rest hitting it. (unless gun is mint you will find these on a scheutzen)
Rounded checkering at grip cap. and good Winchester fitted cap.
Checkering not extending into the frame, and darkened from age.
Triangle checkering pattern when there is a palm rest.
Nickle plating is not "mirror bright"
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Todd,
Hopefully, it shoots as nice as it does look. We have all been where you are, and it is called on the learning curve. Sometimes it takes these little stumbles(or experiences', if you will) to give us enough light to learn from other peoples(like Bert) experience. I am sure this experience will help with your next purchase in this field.
At the very worst, you have a good platform, of which to build something special upon.
Best0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
Todd,
Hopefully, it shoots as nice as it does look. We have all been where you are, and it is called on the learning curve. Sometimes it takes these little stumbles(or experiences', if you will) to give us enough light to learn from other peoples(like Bert) experience. I am sure this experience will help with your next purchase in this field.
At the very worst, you have a good platform, of which to build something special upon.
Best
But I dont seem to get any smarter...[:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by cartod
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
Todd,
Hopefully, it shoots as nice as it does look. We have all been where you are, and it is called on the learning curve. Sometimes it takes these little stumbles(or experiences', if you will) to give us enough light to learn from other peoples(like Bert) experience. I am sure this experience will help with your next purchase in this field.
At the very worst, you have a good platform, of which to build something special upon.
Best
But I dont seem to get any smarter...[:D]
Sure you did... I'll bet that you learned several things from this experience. However, and just to be sure that you do not make this same mistake again, I want you to type the following 100-times (no cheating with cut & paste) and post it...
I WILL NEVER EVER BUY A WINCHESTER MODEL 1885 AGAIN WITHOUT FIRST CONSULTING WITH BERT! [}:)][:D][}:)][:D][}:)][:D]0 -
Todd,
I did go back to the original post, and look over the pictures on the auction really close, and noticed a few skeptical things. I edited my post, but I think it was to late, and you had clicked BIN. I am sorry as I didn't notice them right away and post them in my original post, but I am no expert like the few other's, and it took me a while for things like the no barrel proof, and the bright Turnbull type colors, to register. I apologize for that.
Best0 -
Todd, are you obligated to buy this gun as it was misrepresented by an unknowing seller? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Winchester 1912
Todd, are you obligated to buy this gun as it was misrepresented by an unknowing seller?
I got a 3 day inspection and spoke with the buyer on the phone before I clicked BIN. He knows that the gun is not right now, but Im not sure if he knew or not while he was selling. I will give him the benefit of the doubt.
Bert, My check was not leaving this house until I spoke with you about this gun. Again, The best steak in the house and your favorite beverages pour all night for saving my ass on this one.0 -
Cartod, I just bought mine from Bert, kinda saved on e-mails. He told me every single thing that was not original, and I bought it as a shooter. I believe Clouder has a Bert rifle too, maybe, if you ask real nice... 0 -
Hanging around Bert is just like hanging out with Mark Christian, sooner or later you'll own an 1885 or a Garand. Yeah, I have one of each.[:I] 0 -
When it comes to WINNIES
I believe GB ATE is quite enhanced with Bert and Pauline (By the way, where is she? Haven't seen her lately?)
Joe0
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