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Buying a Handgun, with POA

LesGrossman
Can someone buy a handgun with a power of attorney in another persons name?
Dad lives in Ky I live in Hi, can he buy a pistol in my name with a power of attorney then mail it to me? Of coarse it would be mailed from Me to Me for legality. I know all other transaction requirements, just the POA that's got me stumped.
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • rufe-snow
    Doubt it very much. I'm not a lawyer, (thank god). More then likely this would be considered by any FFL dealer with even half a brain what is called a "Straw Purchase", and run your dad out of his business. He might even drop a dime on him to the feds. Which would likely cause him and you at the very least a lot of embarrassment, and a whole bunch of legal fees if things turned really nasty. Mailing handguns is another no-no. Only FFL dealers can legally send handguns through the mail. A non-licensee private citizen has to use a common carrier like UPS and then have it be received by a licensed FFl dealer on the receiving end.
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  • mark christian
    Okay, you have a few problems with your master plan. First off is question 11a on the Form 4473: Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm? Obviously the answer from your dad is no and there is no exception for power of attorney. Your other problem is that (correct me if I am wrong) Hawaii has a mandatory firearms permit process that requires a purchase permit be issued to the buyer before delivery. Clearly your dad in Kentucky is not going to be able to get such a permit from Hawaii! He can buy the gun for you as a legitimate gift and then ship it UPS or FedEx to a dealer in Hawaii (that will probably cost about $100 for shipping) where you can fill out the 4473 yourself and take delivery once you obtain the needed permit.
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  • k.stanonik
    I agree with all above and might want to add that if the purchase is made with a POA the question of compitency might come up and then a whole new can of worms opened.
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  • gskyhawk
    reply deleted

    nmyers so are you saying there is no way for a person that owns firearms legally in one of the other 49 states to move to Hi and legally take his guns with him ? other than to have each and every gun transfer thru a dealer ?

    because that is the way i am reading your reply
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  • nmyers
    Hawk, there is no exception in GCA68 (or HI law) for a "present"; your advice could result in Les doing time in a HI prison, & his Dad spending his remaining years in a federal prison.

    Mark gave the legal way for Les to get his gun; let's me sure that the legal advice we give is accurate.

    Neal

    EDIT: Les is a resident of HI. His father cannot buy a gun in his home state & then transfer it to Les without going through a HI dealer (see ATF P5300.4, p 8-9). As a resident of HI, Les cannot acquire a firearm without first obtaining a permit (see ATF P5300.5, p 142).

    EDIT: Les, it's federal law----A nonlicensee can transfer a firearm to a resident of his own state (state & local law permitting), or to a dealer in any state. In your example, joe can only request that the gun be shipped to his dealer, & that dealer will pass it on to joe if joe qualifies. A dealer in any state can sell a long gun (rifle or shotgun) to a resident of any state, if you appear before him & such a transfer is legal in both states; you can only buy a handgun from a dealer in your own state. Transporting a gun you own into another state depends upon exactly where you plan to take it.
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  • tsr1965
    LesGrossman,

    My advice is listen to the good advice MC has given you, and forget the POA idea. No offense, but the POA idea, even sounds a little on the dark side, like a bypass, for some odd reason. I am sure that these boards are looked at by other people, than just our members too.

    Best
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  • LesGrossman
    Well all righty then... Thanks for knocking my legs out from under neath me lol. I researched and didn't find any thing saying the cans and can nots of the POW specifically about fire arms, maybe I looked in the wrong places. But none the less thanks hawk.

    Btw Hawaii regs on purchasing firearm: pretty much in order
    *Background check
    *purchase weapon
    *register yourself and the weapons sn to police department
    *2 WEEKS LATER
    *pick up weapon with proof of registry to pd

    I think that's all, and I'm not positive that the 2 wk wait is for all weapons but its definitely for handguns. And obviously there are NO class 3 items in the state.
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  • LesGrossman
    Ok so john buys a pistol for joe, and joe lives in diff state. the only way for joe to pick up the pistol is from an ffl holder, or physically pick it up from john?

    This brings another question, I understand its state dependent and lets not involve liberal states, transporting fire arms from one state to another is illegal is it not?

    I am a 21 year old noob, so fresh into this world understanding rules and regs of firearms, lol.
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  • tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by LesGrossman
    Well all righty then... Thanks for knocking my legs out from under neath me lol. I researched and didn't find any thing saying the cans and can nots of the POW specifically about fire arms, maybe I looked in the wrong places. But none the less thanks hawk.

    Btw Hawaii regs on purchasing firearm: pretty much in order
    *Background check
    *purchase weapon
    *register yourself and the weapons sn to police department
    *2 WEEKS LATER
    *pick up weapon with proof of registry to pd

    I think that's all, and I'm not positive that the 2 wk wait is for all weapons but its definitely for handguns. And obviously there are NO class 3 items in the state.


    #1, and most importantly, all BATFE regulations do apply to all states. A firearm going from one state to another to live, MUST be shipped to a FFL dealer, unless it is the owner moving from one state to another.

    #2, It is important to use a good dose of common sense. Since HI has regulations more stringent on firearms than the federal level, then that common sense would tell me that I should follow those guidelines set forth by the state, county, or local government, lest I be prosecuted, and recieve a free stay at the crowbar hotel with bubba.

    #3, Why would you want to drag someone else into doing something that has potential to land them in the federal pen?

    #4, If you don't believe people on here who are, or have been FFL dealers, then, why not call the BATFE, and ask them, and/or your state/county/local LE agencies there?

    Best
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  • mark christian
    quote:Originally posted by LesGrossman
    Ok so john buys a pistol for joe, and joe lives in diff state. the only way for joe to pick up the pistol is from an ffl holder, or physically pick it up from john?

    This brings another question, I understand its state dependent and lets not involve liberal states, transporting fire arms from one state to another is illegal is it not?

    I am a 21 year old noob, so fresh into this world understanding rules and regs of firearms, lol.


    There is no provision in the Gun Control Act that allows for purchases through power of attorney; a background check for you in Hawaii cannot take place in KY through your father. There is a mechanism for corporations to purchase firearms, but not in another state.

    Ok so john buys a pistol for joe, and joe lives in diff state. the only way for joe to pick up the pistol is from an ffl holder, or physically pick it up from john?


    First off John cannot buy a pistol for Joe, that is illegal unless it is a legitimate gift. Since Joe lives in another state he cannot physically pick up the firearms from John, it must either be sent to an FFL dealer in Joe's home state or in the case of a long gun Joe and John can both go to an FFL dealer in John's state and if the dealer is willing (not all are) and if laws in both states allow for it, John can hand the rifle/shotgun over to the dealer who will then have Joe do a 4473 and if approved transfer the firearm to Joe.

    transporting fire arms from one state to another is illegal is it not?

    Federal law allows for you to transport personally owned firearms from your home in one state to another state if this is done directly (no stopping off at cousin Bubba's house for plinking) and if the firearm(s) in question are legal in the state of destination. Not every state accepts the federal opinion on "safe transport" through their territory so caution is the watch word unless you want to become a test case on states rights vs. the federal government.

    As Neal is fond of saying: "I don't like prison food"!
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