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Colt Automatic

lightning2923
Picked up and brought home a Colt pistol marked "AUTOMATIC COLT" caliber 38 rimless smokeless. Two patent dates Apr. 20th, 1897 and Sep. 9, 1902. Ser.#30xxx. Two clips. Again what do i have?
Thanks Tommy
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • lightning2923
    I have a colt .32 auto. 1903 model. 60% condition. How do I fing=d a collectr who would be interested in this piece?
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  • rhmc24
    From your description it is a 1902 or 1903. 1902 has six inch barrel and 1903 about 4 1/2" barrel. 1902 has slide stop latch on left side to hold slide back when last shot is fired - 1903 no latch back feature.
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  • rhmc24
    The .38 Rimless Smokeless round, aka .38ACP has not been manufactured for maybe 50 years. CAUTION, you may learn that the .38 Super is of the same dimensions and will chamber and fire in your gun. The .38 Super is far too powerful to be fired in your early pistol. Indication of FAILURE in the primitive Colt automatics of this type is seen at the front of the slide at the take-down slider, aka 'slide lock'. Cracking first appears and FAILURE would send the slide back into the shooters face.

    That said, you have a desirable collector piece, scarce in that only about 50K were made, up into the 1930s.
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  • ruger41
    Ammo is available from Old Western Scrounger. They use .38 Super nickel plated brass to make their .38 ACP ammo but it sure isn't cheap at $40 a box. http://www.ows-ammo.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/192
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  • David Nunn
    The 50 year figure probably isn't accurate. I bought some .38 ACP amm from Jerry's, maybe 20 years ago. It is not currently made by any major manufacturer, but you might find some in old inventory. Other than that, it is OWS or roll your own.

    To reiterate: DO NOT TRY TO SHOOT FACTORY .38 SUPER ROUNDS IN THIS GUN!
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  • Grasshopper
    Where do you "pick up" these things? I want to wander around and see if I can find any.[:)] pic would be nice...
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  • rsnyder55
    Can 38 Super brass be used to make 38 ACP cartridges?
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  • David Nunn
    Yes, the dimensions of .38 ACP brass and .38 Super brass are identical, so you can roll your own .38 ACP ammo from .38 Super cases using reliable published data.

    It is the identical dimensions that makes this situation so dangerous, and why multiple warnings have been posted.

    A long time ago, I was dispatched to visit witn an older couple about some problem or other, I forget what. Before I left, the old gentleman wanted to show my his pistol. He had one of the old Colt 1902 commercial models. It was loaded. I checked the ammo in it and it was loaded with .38 Super rounds.

    I asked him if he had ever fired it with this ammo in it, and he said he had. I told him he was lucky not to have the slide implanted in his forehead, and explained the difference in the ammo, and the difference in the design between his gun and the later 1911.

    He was horrified! He gave me every round of .38 Super ammo he had, which was OK with me since I have a Commander in that caliber. I promised to get him a box of correct ammo, and I did. I was about to make an order with Jerry's anyway, so I had them include a box of .38 ACP ammo. I gave them to the old guy and he was very grateful.

    Product liability being what it is today, this ammo problem would not exist in current production guns and ammo. If the .38 ACP ammo and guns were still being sold, and if the .38 Super was a new development, the gun and ammo makers would make the dimensions different enough so that the Super ammo would not fit in a .38 ACP chamber.

    If you recall, the .357 Magnum was developed out of experiments with heavy .38 Special loads in the old .38/44 Outdoorsman revolvers. However, when the guns and ammo were made by the factories, the cases were made about 1/10 inch longer than .38 Special cases so they wouldn't fit into .38 Special chambers. The .44 Magnum cases were made longer than .44 Special cases for the same reason.
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  • lightning2923
    HEY! And thanks guys for the info. For a gun in fair condition (IMO) what value could i place on this gun for insurance purpose?
    Tommy
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  • rhmc24
    With no original finish but functional about $500. I bought one for $450 not long ago. With 50% original finish probably $800. Hava a look at Gun Broker auctions. There are several of them listed.
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