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M1 Carbine Questions

MOONED
I'm just starting my search for a decent M1 carbine. I am expanding my somewhat small WWII collection and this is a missing peace. I know a little bit about what I should be searching for, but only enough to be dangerous. I do realize that I would probably have to spend WAY over my budget to have a true "collectable". My budget is to stay under a grand, but to get the best possible "bang for my buck". I know that Rockola & Winchester are probably the most sought after of the variety of producers, with probably Saginaw & IBM in the middle and Inland bringing up the rear (at least that is my understanding as far as desired manufacturers). I know there is a couple of other manufactures which I did not include, but they are probably in the middle with IBM. I also realize that Universal was not a government contractor and was late 60's production. I also realize that Plainfeild was a post war production manufacturer and used mainly (if not all) military parts.
Anyway, please confirm my understanding on items to look for when looking at potential carbines for my purchase. I do know that I should look for a stock which has a cartouche on the right hand side of the butt. I do know that it would probably be better to have a date stamped barrel. I also know that the earlier carbines had a non-adjustable flip-up rear sight. I know that for some carbines, an import mark will be visible on the underside (if I'm not mistaken) side of the barrel. Obviously, one without the import mark would be better.
Aside from these (possible) known facts, I am at a loss for what direction to go. I realize the vast majority of carbines which I may encounter on the market today will most likely have been refurbished in some manner or another. What I would like to know is; Am I correct in the "known facts" I mentioned previously? Also, would a parkerized finish be original or a refurbish? I think refurbished, but I'm not sure. I think (?) that the original finish metal would have a darker almost dull bluing finish. Am I correct on this?
Anyway, I know this is a DEEP subject, but I would love to hear opinions based on what I have stated above. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I can take it, and want to know the truth so I can make a wise decision on my next purchase.

Any other opinions???

Thanks in advance,

Aaron
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Comments

7 comments

Date Votes
  • MOONED
    The local dealer just got in a M1 carbine, with flip rear sight, no bayonet lug, the barrel is marked MARLIN, there is a CAI import mark on bottom of barrel, the receiver is a National Postal Meter and it wears what looks like an authentic paratrooper stock. I thought that only Inland made the paratrooper style carbines? I will get some photos of it today as well as the serial number. The store is asking $999 for it, seems to be a little high from what limited knowledge I have on carbines. I will post more info after work today, thanks!
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  • nmyers
    I think your approach of educating yourself before you start your shopping is commendable. I suggest that you buy yourself a copy of US M1 Carbines Wartime Production by Craig Riesch, an inexpensive paperback that will answer a lot of your questions, plus it's a great reference when you are considering a purchase.

    My approach is the opposite of yours. I just look for carbines; when I find one for sale, I evaluate it for manufacturer, variation, originality, condition, & price. Not that you are wrong, it's just that I don't want to limit myself & possibly let a good one get away.

    With budget constraints, you probably want to look for a "USGI arsenal rebuild" as the best choice. Most of these will have replacement stocks, so you have learn what markings to look for, as they won't have a cartouche. Date stamped barrel is not a good indicator of anything; you have to know what you are looking at. Import marks can be anywhere on the barrel or receiver, even below the wood line; always field strip a carbine under consideration.

    Most parts, original or replacement, will be parkerized. A few small parts, mainly bolts, will be blued. A few barrels were blued. A carbine that is mostly or completely blued was done by Bubba. A carbine whose parkerizing on all parts is the same color is undoubtedly refinished.

    Neal
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  • MIKE WISKEY
    I'll suggest going to www.odcmp.com, if you haven't already.
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  • MOONED
    Thank you both for your replies. I have looked on CMP and priced what they have to offer. I figure with them, I really won't know what I'm getting till it arrives. That said, I'd rather evaluate the firearm in person at a dealer or gunshow and make an educated purchase after a "hands-on" inspection. At least with that, I may find a better example than rolling the dice with a complete rebuild. I tend to think that CMP will provide a quality shooter, but nothing more. But that is merely an opinion.

    I was at a gunshow this weekend and found a Saginaw for $900.00, but passed because the top of the bolt had the serial number etched in it and the front site was a different coloration than the barrel. Also, the barrel did not have a date stamping, which I thought was "typical" of all carbines. The barrel also did not have an ordinance bomb, which I thought was typical. The stock, did however have a wonderful cartouche on the butt area. I did contemplate the purchase, but chose to educate myself a little more before making possibly making a poor decision.
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  • Ambrose
    I think your assessment of CMP is correct in that you would get a great shooter but not necessarily a collector. I have a couple of CMP Garands; a Springfield that has had the stock replaced with a new one with CMP markings and a HRA with mixed parts that looks more like a weapon used in combat would look. A friend has a CMP Garand that looks new with a new walnut CMP marked stock. I prefer a military rifle that looks like it has some history behind it rather than one that looks new. Most WWII era military rifles have been rebuilt at least once and have mixed parts. I, personally, have no objection to that since, in my opinion, those rifles are typical. However, many collectors want one with "correct" parts, ie., parts like it had when it left the factory that made it. CMP will furnish you with a typical rifle (or carbine), at least in the lower grades, but you would not likely get a "correct" one. Certainly, in the higher CMP grades, you could expect to get replaced parts of whatever brands they had on hand. For a "correct" or "collectable" carbine, you will have to do your own research and inspection. (I probably shouldn't tell you this, but my own carbine is a Winchester that I got many years ago from the DCM for $20!)
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  • validator
    Depending upon your collecting objectives, one other approach that you might consider is to find a carbine with the greatest amount of originality in the highest condition possible for the money that you have to spend. For example, I once bought a carbine in an online auction solely because it had the stock (which was a mismatch with the rest of the rifle) that I needed for another project. When I got the carbine I discovered that it was stone original IBM, except for the stock, in excellent condition. The rifle turned out to be worth more than the sum of its parts but other bidders discounted it for the mismatched stock. Maybe an 80% condition 100% original piece, or a 80% original 95%+ condition one, would work for you.
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  • givette
    Gotta ease up a little bit. With your self-imposed budget constraint, most you can hope for, (excepting that odd stroke of buyer's luck), is a 'great shooter', with some collecting qualities.

    If I remember, all M1 carbines left the factory with the early sights. The only issue carbines with the 'new' sight during WWII are ones that were returned to arsenal for refurb, and the sight was changed to the new style prior to cessation of hostilities.

    Realistically, there is no way to tell if the new sight was added to the carbine before, or after the end of WWII, as all that have the new sight on them will have been turned in, and will reflect that fact with the correct arsenal inspection markings.

    But I digress:
    As has been said, do some bookwork, which, as far as I know, is your intention anyway. Good luck! Joe
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