22lr revolvers worth so much?
Why are 22lr revolvers like the S&W model 63 and 617 worth so much more than larger caliber revolvers of the same brand/make ???
scott
scott
0
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Its a very good question.
I think the answer is like anything else, supply and demand.
First of all, true K (or L) frame .22s really shouldn't cost LESS than comparable larger caliber guns, because the .22s are effectively the exact same guns, only with smaller caliber bores and cylinder holes. More simply, it doesn't really cost Smith and Wesson any LESS to manufacture them.
I think the biggest reason why .22 wheelguns generally cost more is because the price of the .38/.357 service guns is actually a bit depressed! There are so many older service revolvers in .38/357 floating around the used market that the price of them is lower than it otherwise "should" be. I believe this leads to a spillover effect where it also affects the pricing of brand new guns in those calibers. (That is a very interesting point and one I had not considered).
But you can look at this from the flip side; for what its worth, there are still relative bargains to be had in .38 and .357 guns. EG older .357 Smith model 19s can still be had for under $400 in great shape. While these are not especially rare, they're never going to be made again, and considering that many of these were built in the era of hand-fitted parts, they're quite a performance bargain.0 -
It is a common question. Most people don't understand that the costs involved in producing a quality small bore revolver are virtually identical to producing a large centerfire pistol, the size of the bore does not reduce production costs: A quality .22 barrel costs as much to produce as a .38 caliber tube. A pistol like an S&W K-22 (Model 17) or an old Colt Diamondback use mechanics that are every bit as complex as a large bore revolver...And their prices reflect this. Efforts to produce really cheap small caliber revolvers always result in pistols that wear out quickly, do not index properly and misfire constantly. Since their mechanisms are so poorly constructed adjustment or repairs are difficult to impossible to perform and most gunsmiths won't touch them. 0 -
I'm not sure what you mean.
If you check the MSRP of new guns, they are pretty much the same within each product line. The "Classic" line was originally limited, but sold so well they have expanded it; these are premium finish guns, so the prices are bound to be higher.
On the other hand, used "older" guns are really popular & supply & demand have made them pricey. Some folks will pay extra for the "pre-lock" versions. Plus, the older models don't have the "pretty" feature like high-viz sights & oversize grips that the purists really don't care for.
If you are lucky enough to find something you like, don't let the price make you walk away; someone else will pick it up fast.
Neal0 -
Note that there is a difference between the MSRP (ie what a manufacturer thinks might be a viable price to STICK onto a gun, and its actual VALUE (ie what it actually sells for in the real world).
Like with many products in many industries (eg musical instruments, the "sticker" price on cars, etc), most guns don't actually sell retail at their MSRPs, but somewhat below. Someone involved in the retail side can fill in the details, but my understanding is that the actual in-store retail selling price on Smiths usually runs about 1/3 off the MSRP.
The used market is even more variable.
So with that, let's check the "tape". Smith suggested retail prices right off their website:
Smith 18 classic "combat masterpiece" .22LR $1043
Smith 17 classic .22LR "masterpiece" .22LR $1082
Smith 617 .22LR $940
Smith 686 .357 $932
Smith 686 plus .357 $964
Smith 620 .357 $893
The first two are modern renditions of older guns, sold mostly for nostalgia value. Note that they have key-locks and I believe they are made with MIM parts, and lack the older pinned-and-recessed features, etc. So while they LOOK like the older guns, they're really not the same. They cost a little more. . .whether or not they're worth more is debatable and the subject of another set of posts (though IMO you'd be crazy to actually pay the MSRP for one).
All that aside, it looks like the modern production guns are being sold essentially at parity. The modern stainless medium frame .22 617 is basically the same ASKING price as a modern stainless medium frame .357. I'd attribute this to similar manufacturing costs.
I can't speak to the actual retail prices on these, but it would not at all surprise me if the .357s were a teensy bit less than the .22s, again because of the sheer number of .357s out there. Competition from the used market will still affect retail prices on new guns. (Amazing how the free market works, isn't it?).
Note that .22 autos are a whole different story. .22 autos virtually all use simple blowback actions that are cheap to manufacture. So these *should* cost less than centerfire autos, that necessarily use more complicated action types for safety with high pressure centerfire rounds. If you go to simple blowback type pistols (eg the Hi-Point, I believe is one, as are the MAC-type submachine gun pistols), you can get a cheaper product, but these aren't particularly refined guns, and they are a lot less desirable than conventional Browning actions.
When you get to USED guns, I think is where the difference is more apparent. And this is probably what you are talking about when you talk about "worth".
Without getting too hung up in details, my impression is that there are still plenty of .357 Smiths available at around $400 or even a bit less. .38s are even cheaper yet. But you're going to have a reasonably hard time finding any good condition Smith .22 revolver for under $450.
Again, I attribute this to the relatively large supply of surplus .38s and .357s out there. If you look at OTHER common revolver calibers (eg .45ACP, .45LC, .44magnum/special, would be the most popular, though large frame), I think you'd find that none of THOSE are really any cheaper than .22LR revolvers.0 -
In addition to what everyone else said. I find that I can sell a quality 22 revolver (S&W K-22) faster than any other. The feel great are easy to shoot and ammo ils cost effective. You also can get a sililar revolver in a variety of larger center fire calibers. To many people mistake a quality piece with cheap imports. 0 -
s&w ..high quality machine work versus heritage brand.....look at the compund curve sideplate fit...perfecto....no zinc casting here 0 -
quote:Originally posted by dano
The high-price of ammo in the past year forced many to look at .22LR as an affordable option.
That was until they started pricing S&W .22LR revolvers. [xx(]
First of all, Smith makes a reasonably good entry-level .22 automatic that costs about $200-$250, and they are easy to find. So if you want to shoot .22s, gun entry price shouldn't be stopping you.
Second, Smith makes the best mass-production .22 double-action revolvers out there. In fact, I think apart from Taurus (which has a checkered reputation when it comes to quality control) I think Smith is the only company putting out DA .22 revolvers right now! No idea why Ruger isn't, though I think it probably ought to.
Other no-longer in production models worth looking at include Colt (Diamondback if you're rich, police positive or Trooper if you're not), DAN Wesson, and H&R.
Anyway, a Smith 617 should endure literally a lifetime of hard use. The gun design was built to handle unlimited .357 magnum loads; .22s barely even touch it, and I defy anyone to actually wear one out by shooting it. Further, if you buy a used one, it will never go down in value. You can shoot it for 20 years, put 20,000 rounds through it, and STILL sell it for more than you paid for it!
So I wouldn't let the high price tag dissuade you if you want one. You'll never second-guess yourself by buying the best, and this is one gun you'll literally be shooting with your grandkids.0 -
I've had a S&W 22 Masterpiece (pre number 17) for almost 40 years, best money I've ever spent on a handgun. If I'm having an issue with accuracy, I go back and shoot my 22, solves all my problems. I have put literally 1000s of rounds through it, just shoots better as time goes on.
I've also got a K-38 Masterpiece, and a model 48 in 22 Mag, loaded they weigh within an ounce or two of each other, that was a big S&W advertising point back in the day. Same size, weight and sight picture.
As has been stated, for the life of me I don't know why Ruger doesn't built a full sized double action revolver in 22 cal.
Step up and pay the price, you'll never be sorry.
W.D.0
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