Inherently Accurate Cartridges
A recent Forum question wanted to know what caliber rifle to buy, "Hornet vs Fireball" I recently got a 221 Fireball Cooper Model 38 and it shoots very well. (shot a fantastic group after zeroing scope and proceeded to shoot woodchucks. Got over 135 straight, one shot, one woodchuck and then missed one. Was standing, off hand at 175 yards. Only one logical conclusion...defective bullet) So my advice would be go 221 Fireball. BUT the discussion should center around wich round is "MOST likely" to shoot well.
There are some Cartridge/Bullet combinations that seen to work well in most guns. Some of the combinations that just seem to show themselves in their ability to make small groups are:
220 Russian based shells-22 PPC, 6mm PPC, 22 BR, 6mm BR, 6.5mm BR, etc
222 Remington-221 Fireball, 222, 222 Mag, 223, etc
308 Winchester
I know most accurate rifle makers can assemble a good rifle, the owner can take weeks of load development tests and make a combo that will make the thing shoot OK, but the Inherently Accurate stuff just seems to shoot well out of the box.
Curious as to your thoughts....
There are some Cartridge/Bullet combinations that seen to work well in most guns. Some of the combinations that just seem to show themselves in their ability to make small groups are:
220 Russian based shells-22 PPC, 6mm PPC, 22 BR, 6mm BR, 6.5mm BR, etc
222 Remington-221 Fireball, 222, 222 Mag, 223, etc
308 Winchester
I know most accurate rifle makers can assemble a good rifle, the owner can take weeks of load development tests and make a combo that will make the thing shoot OK, but the Inherently Accurate stuff just seems to shoot well out of the box.
Curious as to your thoughts....
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There are some cartridges that appear to be more inherently accurate than other's, and they seem to be short and fat...or at least that is the trend these days. I guess it all blends into efficiency and consistancy, if you will. If you get a better powder burn, where you are burning all your powder in the barrel, then you are controlling the consistancy better, than a powder burn where some of the powder is unburnt.
Lets also not say it is all about burn efficiency either. There are some mechanics involved, like consistancy of the brass being used as well as the bulets.
Wow what a can of worms we are getting into...I am sure JustC, Nononsense, Sandwarrior, and others will be chiming in to help.
Best
EDIT 1:
Better powder burn, starts with better ignition...thanks Beany.
However, as in herently accurate goes, the triple duece(222 Remington), was at one time the record holder of many events. Inherently accurate?...well...yes...but not as much so as the 220 Russian parented cases pf the 22 & 6mm PPC, and now on to theRemington BR family, and some of the 284 and WSM based rounds for the longer Benchrest games. Benchrest competitors are always searching for something better...something to give them the edge. They are not going to hang on to something that is a has been, while something else is taking over the podium. It is an ever evolving thing, when it comes to accuracy.0 -
quote:Originally posted by spike449
A recent Forum question wanted to know what caliber rifle to buy, "Hornet vs Fireball" I recently got a 221 Fireball Cooper Model 38 and it shoots very well. (shot a fantastic group after zeroing scope and proceeded to shoot woodchucks. Got over 135 straight, one shot, one woodchuck and then missed one. Was standing, off hand at 175 yards. Only one logical conclusion...defective bullet) So my advice would be go 221 Fireball. BUT the discussion should center around wich round is "MOST likely" to shoot well.
There are some Cartridge/Bullet combinations that seen to work well in most guns. Some of the combinations that just seem to show themselves in their ability to make small groups are:
220 Russian based shells-22 PPC, 6mm PPC, 22 BR, 6mm BR, 6.5mm BR, etc
222 Remington-221 Fireball, 222, 222 Mag, 223, etc
308 Winchester
I know most accurate rifle makers can assemble a good rifle, the owner can take weeks of load development tests and make a combo that will make the thing shoot OK, but the Inherently Accurate stuff just seems to shoot well out of the box.
Curious as to your thoughts....
Thoughts?
First thought: If all your shots were like [item in blue, above], you are certainly grand-national tropy material (considering 175 yds, and approx 3in. target shot offhand).
...you'd be a boon to any shooting team. Again, that's trophy scale shooting. Magnificient!
There is no second thought. Joe
EDIT
Yes, there is a second thought here. Post your same exact question over to the Gunbroker Competition Shooters forum. Okay to post on more than one forum. May get quicker results to your querie. Thanks, Joe
Note to all: I'm using a 3in. diameter target not arbitrarily. Woodchucks will, after grasping the chaw, lift their heads while they're chewing the cud, and unless disturbed, will remain motionless. At the claimed distance reported above, most always only the head will be available for a clear shot. Thanks again, Joe0 -
I don't think ANY cartridge is "inherently" accurate.
That is, its pretty easy to make INACCURATE loads for any caliber, if you so choose!
I think its >90+% about consistency:
Take properly sized and good quality brass, match primers, mix them with match grade bullets and precisely measured charges of appropriate powder, seat them consistently and to the appropriate length for your gun, and you should get something reasonably accurate. . .(assuming the gun itself is accurate).
Take variably sized or different thickness brass, non-precise powder measurement, poor and/or variable bullet seating, low-end bullets, etc, and you'll end up with something inaccurate, no matter how good the gun or caliber.
Obviously, some cartridges make it easier to get there than others.
Not every caliber has a manufacturer putting out match grade cases, for example, and some calibers don't have the selection of good match-grade bullets that others do. Also some calibers are just generally associated with more "sloppy" guns than others.
For example, nobody really thinks the 7.62x39 (SKS/AK) round is all that accurate. . .and this is in part because of cheap milsurp ammo, as well as the generally not that accurate AK platform its usually shot from. If you take that same cartridge and neck it down to 6mm, then you have the highly-regarded super-accurate 6mm PPC round.
Why the difference? One big one is that nobody is building inaccurate 6mm guns.
As another example, 9mm luger usually has a reputation for being inaccurate. . .but that's largely because the round has been made by so many manufacturers to so many specs all over the globe for so long. Take true match 9mm luger ammo from a match gun (eg the SIG P210) and it will shoot as well as ANY centerfire auto pistol.
Caliber/load type does matter to an extent. Short/fat cases help not so much because of ensuring in-barrel powder burn (most rifle cartridges do that), but rather because the shorter overall cartridge length helps ensure consistent powder ignition.0 -
308, 30-06, 270, 243,Accurate and relaible for North American Big Game like Deer and Bear. 0 -
7mm-08!![8D] 0 -
IMHO---The biggest contributor to accuracy, is consistency. Specifically, Muzzle velocity. Velocity affects the bullet BC, time to target etc. I'm assuming that the shooter is 100% consistent with aiming, breathing, and all other issues at the bench. Everything being equal, the larger the velocity deviation, the larger the group. HAWKSHAW 0 -
I'd toss the 6.5X55 into that list, as well as the improved versions of it. It holds its own with the 6.5X284 until you get to the longest of practical ranges, if loaded with premium components. 0 -
I am a big fan of the 222 Remington Magnum, and the 22 K-Hornet[^] 0 -
JonK-just got a Schultz & Larsen 6.5 x 55 target rifle and have to agree with you. Have some old 120 gr bullets I swaged and even they seem to work well. (may have to work on swageing a 140 gr bullet as I prefer their long range prowess) The rig has iron target sights on it and my old eyes do't work well enough for critical work, so am working on that...
Bert- do you have equal success with the K-Hornet as the 222 Mag? Friend has a Contender barrel and is trying to work up a load.0 -
quote:Originally posted by spike449
Bert- do you have equal success with the K-Hornet as the 222 Mag? Friend has a Contender barrel and is trying to work up a load.
The 222 Mag is better at 200+ yards due to the heavier bullet (27.5 -grains of 4064 under a 50-grain Sierra Blitz bullet), shot in my Remington Model 700 BDL Heavy Varmint, but the K-Hornet is deadly accurate out to 250 yards with 13.0 grains of 2400 under a 40-grain Hornady V-Max bullet (I use this load in my old Model 1885 high-wall single-shot). I do not recommend using my load data in anyone else's rifle.0
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