Model 70 Bolt/Extractor Problem
Hello,
I recently bought a Winchester Model 70 300 Win Mag with the pre 64 action. I have been having a problem with getting the bolt to close and lock down when feeding a loose round into the chamber.
When I load the rounds into the magazine, the action works perfectly. It locks down and fires without a hitch. However, when shooting at the range and just laying a round on top of the magazine, the bolt will not completely lock down. I can tell what is happening is the extractor will not pop over the rim of the cartridge. It is like the area of the chamber that the extractor travels in is too tight to let the extractor flex outward enough to catch the cartridge rim. I can see evidence of wear on the outside tip of the extractor where it is contacting the wall of the receiver.
I put the bolt out of my other Model 70 in the rifle to see if the 300's bolt was the problem or if it was in the receiver. Well, the bolt out of my other 70 did the exact same thing. So, obviously, the issue lies in the tolerances of my receiver.
So, what now? Can this be fixed? Can I remove some of the thickness of the extractor where it is showing wear? Or will a gunsmith need to work on the inside of the receiver?
As noted, when feeding from the magazine, it operates fine. But if I feed a loose round, it will not close. This results in the round sticking in the chamber and having to be rodded out from the muzzle. Not good for a hunting rifle.
Thanks in advance for any help
I recently bought a Winchester Model 70 300 Win Mag with the pre 64 action. I have been having a problem with getting the bolt to close and lock down when feeding a loose round into the chamber.
When I load the rounds into the magazine, the action works perfectly. It locks down and fires without a hitch. However, when shooting at the range and just laying a round on top of the magazine, the bolt will not completely lock down. I can tell what is happening is the extractor will not pop over the rim of the cartridge. It is like the area of the chamber that the extractor travels in is too tight to let the extractor flex outward enough to catch the cartridge rim. I can see evidence of wear on the outside tip of the extractor where it is contacting the wall of the receiver.
I put the bolt out of my other Model 70 in the rifle to see if the 300's bolt was the problem or if it was in the receiver. Well, the bolt out of my other 70 did the exact same thing. So, obviously, the issue lies in the tolerances of my receiver.
So, what now? Can this be fixed? Can I remove some of the thickness of the extractor where it is showing wear? Or will a gunsmith need to work on the inside of the receiver?
As noted, when feeding from the magazine, it operates fine. But if I feed a loose round, it will not close. This results in the round sticking in the chamber and having to be rodded out from the muzzle. Not good for a hunting rifle.
Thanks in advance for any help
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The Model 70 with the claw extractor, ie., pre 64', or Model 70 Classic....as being controlled round fed, should not be loose round fed. The round should be put in the magazine, and picked up by the bolt. Failure to do so, is rolling the dice with breaking your extractor. That not only holds true for the Model 70, but any rifle with that type extractor, like the Ruger 77 Mark II and newer rifles, Mauser rifles, and their numerous copies and take off's.
Best0 -
Ok, thank you for the reply. I was not aware that loading loose rounds was not good. My Model 70 Classic 7mm has the same setup and loads loose rounds fine. I will keep that in mind with the 300.
Thanks again!0 -
quote:Originally posted by tatasta
Ok, thank you for the reply. I was not aware that loading loose rounds was not good. My Model 70 Classic 7mm has the same setup and loads loose rounds fine. I will keep that in mind with the 300.
Thanks again!
That is with any rifle with that type of extractor...including your 7mm. Just do not want you to break something, or stress it so it breaks when you are needing it.
As a general everyone has done it from time to time, but it should be avoided if possible. Some rifles work fine, and some don't like the loose round feeding. I suspect that the ones that don't, the extractor groove, or headspacing is a little tight.
Best0 -
Thanks again for the input. I have no problem loading into the mag. But, is it common that if you do loose load a round that the cartridge remains stuck in the chamber. This occurs with both factory and full length reloads.
I really don't want to pack a ramrod out hunting...joking, of course.
-Robert0 -
Robert,
Not sure what the practical application of the following might be, but when I had the same situation, someone suggested pressing in on the middle of the extractor while closing the bolt. Worked on my rifle, but I saw no reason to not just feed through the magazine as intended.0 -
Forcing a model 70 (or any other Mauser-type CRF) extractor to pop over the rim of a cartridge will break the extractor, sooner rather than later. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by airmung
Forcing a model 70 (or any other Mauser-type CRF) extractor to pop over the rim of a cartridge will break the extractor, sooner rather than later.
Ok, I fully understand how to manage this rifle now...only point I had was that I have had a Model 70 7mm with the pre-64 action for 20 years that loaded and shot everything, every way I put in it. I also have a push feed XTR that never faultered. The ability to stick a round in the chamber is amazing to me and would have caused me to think twice before buying this 300. I guess I should have done more research.
-Robert0 -
Note the fronts of claw extractors of Mausers & copies are beveled just so they can be pushed over a rim. On the Springfield, the magazine cutoff is there to enable loading single fire while retaining a full magazine.
I would use black marking pen on the front exterior of the extractor
and remove metal until blacking stops being removed then remove a smidgeon more and polish it.
Also polish the front of the claw so it doesn't have to fight its' way over a rim. Don't alter the edge.
If these style extractors weren't designed to fire loose rounds in the thick of combat there would have been a lot more soldiers killed on all sides.
The only time you'd have a problem loading singly is if headspace were
very excessive.0 -
The single round feature on my Springfield M1903 involves quite difficult bolt closing. You will notice the 'cam angle' on the bolt handle is set 'just so' to force the extractor over a loose cartridge when the bolt handle is forced downward into the locked position. M70 cam angle is slightly different than the '03 design. Risk of galling at the cam surfaces? I don't have the answer to that.
And yes, the extractor face can be polished, but I wouldn't risk metal removal.
The '03 single round feed is an anachronism, as all troops in the field (back in the day) had 5rd clips as their ammo load-out. By all countries.
Opinion: The M70 CRF claw should not be altered. Leave it be. Hathcock loaded his 165gr AP's into 5rd clips prior to patrols. And he had a M70 quite the same as yours (his M70 had a charge guide on the receiver bridge).0 -
Sorry,I don't buy it.
If one Pre 64 Mod 70 will feed singles outside of the magazine than it's safe to say others can also be easily made to do it as military rifles are. If I'm wrong,which I doubt, you buy another extractor.
Any military rifle pistol or SMG and the BAR should take rounds singly. Try it with your Mausers, Japs, Swedes etc. I'd like to hear of any 20th century exceptions.
Incidentally, scope mounted military bolt actions can't take stripper clips.
You can't count on what form ammo will come in in combat.
One may even have to delink 30 cal belts or find rounds loose in boxes and not find it in the nice form you'd like it when you need it.
I'd like to know the basis of the urban legend that Mauser based rifles having positive feed extractors must be fed from a stripper clip or worked through a magazine or the extractor will break.
Even pistols will accept single feed including the 1911 and Beretta which purposely has the open top slide to do so. Here again, I'd like to know of any exceptions.
I doubt any military board would accept such a handicapped rifle.
My 96 Swede just fed singles dropped into the chamber, effortlessly.0
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