Some Of You
Some of you, clearly, have never actually met or known a person with a criminal mentality. They just don't process information the same way you and I do. They don't have, and will never have, the same value system that you and I do.
Some of you apparently believe that the criminal is just like you, only he got caught doing something illegal, and after he has "paid his debt to society," he will gladly become a productive member of society. Crap. He wasn't one before, and he won't be one after.
Some of you apparently believe that the criminal is just like you, only he got caught doing something illegal, and after he has "paid his debt to society," he will gladly become a productive member of society. Crap. He wasn't one before, and he won't be one after.
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Jim, I have already stated my opinion on this thread, but I have a question. Not trying to be argumentative but do you have any info about the restrictions on rights the founding fathers supported? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Don,
You don't seem to understand our founding Fathers were sensible people who knew we would have to 'restrict' some rights to maintain freedom. They were not the 'idealists' you all seem to try to portray them as! The fact that they were able to come to an agreement, which was not easy, on the Constitution and Declaration of Independence shows this. They were 'realists', plan and simple. The problem we have today is we have become way to 'ideal' on both sides of most issues which causes more divisiveness then ever before.
To answer your question, yes, we MUST, as I stated above, pass laws which will insure the freedom and rights of 'good guys' while placing some restrictions on the 'bad guys'!!! Most laws today do not do this. They restrict OUR rights and freedoms because we are, for the most part, law abiding people. If you are not a threat (bad guy) you should not be targeted by ANY law.
Those who demonstrated, through their deeds, that they are not trustworthy should not be trusted!!!
And there it is, Jim - interpreting the Constitution based upon your current belief system.
I couldn't care less how 'reasonable' the founders were. The States ratified written words in the Constitution, not the ramblings of realists. Those written words state that this specific right shall not be infringed. There are no exceptions. You advocate for exceptions. Placing restrictions requires that one either re-defines the 2nd by interpretation or that one ignores it.
It is this very manipulation of the Constitution that is sinking our country. That is what is real, Jim, and it will be much more real to our grandchildren and great-grandchildren if people like you continue to support anti-Constitutional Government power.
Once again: How would you prefer the 2nd Amendment to read? Better yet, perhaps you could enlighten us as to what our Founding Realists actually meant to say.0 -
Face the hard facts...laws are created to control and generate revenue...those that enforce the laws, usually break laws to do it...the badge puts them above the law...and the code of conduct,by the badge holders...where one won't tell on the other...guaruntees they break them without fear of answering for their crimes.
it is a one sided trap..a politically correct gestapo...delivering the accused,to the system of politically elected judges and prosecuters,who are head of the gestapo..for job security that these laws provide ...
for the protection of the sheeple that pay their salary,and kiss up to stay off the bad list.
law enforcement has turned into big business..where petty crime offenders are the target, while large crime offenders usually pay off or cut in crooked badge holders for turning their heads[;)][B)][V]0 -
quote:Originally posted by tomahawk
Face the hard facts...laws are created to control and generate revenue...those that enforce the laws, usually break laws to do it...the badge puts them above the law...and the code of conduct,by the badge holders...where one won't tell on the other...guaruntees they break them without fear of answering for their crimes.
it is a one sided trap..a politically correct gestapo...delivering the accused,to the system of politically elected judges and prosecuters,who are head of the gestapo..for job security that these laws provide ...
for the protection of the sheeple that pay their salary,and kiss up to stay off the bad list.
law enforcement has turned into big business..where petty crime offenders are the target, while large crime offenders usually pay off or cut in crooked badge holders for turning their heads[;)][B)][V]
Absoutely correct!! If you ger arrested by a "LEO" and then go to court, remember that the LEO, the prosecutor, and the judge all draw their paycheck at the same window. Think about it.....0 -
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
quote:Originally posted by tomahawk
Face the hard facts...laws are created to control and generate revenue...those that enforce the laws, usually break laws to do it...the badge puts them above the law...and the code of conduct,by the badge holders...where one won't tell on the other...guaruntees they break them without fear of answering for their crimes.
it is a one sided trap..a politically correct gestapo...delivering the accused,to the system of politically elected judges and prosecuters,who are head of the gestapo..for job security that these laws provide ...
for the protection of the sheeple that pay their salary,and kiss up to stay off the bad list.
law enforcement has turned into big business..where petty crime offenders are the target, while large crime offenders usually pay off or cut in crooked badge holders for turning their heads[;)][B)][V]
Absoutely correct!! If you ger arrested by a "LEO" and then go to court, remember that the LEO, the prosecutor, and the judge all draw their paycheck at the same window. Think about it.....
So do you have the 'perfect' answer to the problem as you see it (above)??? I am all ears!!![}:)]
Once again you proved my point, there is no 'ideal/perfect' system in the real world!!![;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by buffalobo
Jim, I have already stated my opinion on this thread, but I have a question. Not trying to be argumentative but do you have any info about the restrictions on rights the founding fathers supported?
To answer your question would be speculation, BUT the point I am making is the Founders were realistic, common sense people who knew there has never been and will never be a 'perfect/ideal' system with ZERO restrictions on the rights spelled out in the Constitution. I believe they would use the same test I use to consider what will work and not unnecessarily restrict the rights of the people. I could speculate how they would handle the current problems we are facing with our out of control government, and it would not be pretty!![;)]0 -
I think you are wrong. If you read what the founders themselves wrote outside their work on the constitution. I believe they tended to lean towards a hands off approach and to penalize individual bad actors. Just look back through individual qoutes for the various founders. Majority advocate restricting govt. not citizens.
You cannot seriously believe Jefferson would have advocated the restriction of a person to have to ask permission to be allowed to purchase a gun? This does not add up in any reality. His reply would be the same as you have gotten from many here. If you are safe to be among the citizens then your rights should not be abridged. If you are not then why are you free and not incarcerated or dead.
He would put the judicial system and juries back in the hands of the citizens as it was meant to be. Bad actors would be dealt with and citizens rights would be protected.0 -
Progressives want to pull all and ANY support to their side they can. They will tell them whatever they want to hear, seeming to be one their side. They suck people in to make their "movement" grow. Not that the "movememt" is really united on anything really. Lenin would have called these people useful idiots.
You have Jim standing here telling us he belives the SAME thing we do. REALLY?
Jim and Tr are on the same team. The team that leads to the destruction of our beloved constitution. All the "realist" BS aside.
When a wolf tells you he is not a wolf, but a gaurd dog, how many sheep do you let him eat before you doubt him?
It is not hard to tell around here WHO supports the constitution and who doesn't.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Rockatansky
Seems lately that there are two types of people: the criminals and law enforcers.
Pardon me, let me correct myself:
Seems lately that there are three types of people: the criminals and the law enforcers, and then there is Jim Rau.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
To answer your question would be speculation, BUT the point I am making is the Founders were realistic, common sense people who knew there has never been and will never be a 'perfect/ideal' system with ZERO restrictions on the rights spelled out in the Constitution.
"Speculation" is being quite generous. I prefer to take them literally! Speculate Pffft![:(!]0 -
I just want to be left alone....left alone to live my life, support my family and do what I damn well please without being permitted and restricted to death everytime I turn around. There are several things you dont have to do with a man....you can just not talk to him, associate with him,or eat supper at his table. But if he wants to fight then Ill have to oblige him. I feel that im being forced into a fight in one way or another anymore. 0 -
It appears that this thread has wandered off topic. 0
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