Disc on Swedish Mauser, Cont
Again, believing those translations verbatim shows a lack of knowledge of how a barrel wears, especially with corrosive ammunition and how such wear can be measured and probably was measured by the Swedish Army.
I erred on bullet diameter in the previous thread but that's irrelevant to this whole discussion.
That's why I asked for proper clarification.
Reference 1 translation states the largest segment is stamped with caliber of barrel. We know the caliber!!
While known as caliber 6.5 Swede, it's really 6.7mm (.264) in bullet and groove diameters. It turns out to be the land diameter which is 6.5mm or thereabouts.
And why is land diameter (properly known as bore diameter)relevant as a measure of barrel wear? Answer; It isn't if we use their translation literally..
So how do we make that translation believable without detailed explanation ?
Reference 2 translation states the diameter of the bore can be 6.49-6.59 mm.in a rifle that has seen service and is due for inspection.
Taken literally it means to me that a snugly fitting plug gage within the range of 6.46-6.6mm (.254-.2598) can be run the length of the used barrel.
That's hogwash because a snug gage at the breech wont make it to the muzzle.
That's why we use a breechbore gage and to my knowledge they did also
unless they used a standard depth to which they inserted a plug gage.
Again, we need detailed info on how they used their inspection gages and what these numbers really mean.
The description on classifying rusty bores is also deficient and needs detailed clarification.
May I say ,for experience, I have inspected and classified thousands of US 45, 30 and 50 caliber weapons and taught theory of operation, trouble shooting, maintenance and repair to all Company Armorers of the Army 7th Division in '53-54.
I don't need any references to back up the above.
However, I have found a treatise by Dr David Basiji who after four years of research, properly goes into detail on wear testing and throat gaging in the classification of these rifle barrels. Instead of the U.S. style tapered Breechbore gage, they used a series of straight pin or plug gages to accomplish the same thing and that is condition and progress of throat erosion.
What these numbers mean and how they were arrived at may be academic
except that high numbers are bad and low numbers are good.
Anyone interested in Basiji's 16 pg. paper which includes the Ljungman may contact me for a copy which I will mail at cost.
I erred on bullet diameter in the previous thread but that's irrelevant to this whole discussion.
That's why I asked for proper clarification.
Reference 1 translation states the largest segment is stamped with caliber of barrel. We know the caliber!!
While known as caliber 6.5 Swede, it's really 6.7mm (.264) in bullet and groove diameters. It turns out to be the land diameter which is 6.5mm or thereabouts.
And why is land diameter (properly known as bore diameter)relevant as a measure of barrel wear? Answer; It isn't if we use their translation literally..
So how do we make that translation believable without detailed explanation ?
Reference 2 translation states the diameter of the bore can be 6.49-6.59 mm.in a rifle that has seen service and is due for inspection.
Taken literally it means to me that a snugly fitting plug gage within the range of 6.46-6.6mm (.254-.2598) can be run the length of the used barrel.
That's hogwash because a snug gage at the breech wont make it to the muzzle.
That's why we use a breechbore gage and to my knowledge they did also
unless they used a standard depth to which they inserted a plug gage.
Again, we need detailed info on how they used their inspection gages and what these numbers really mean.
The description on classifying rusty bores is also deficient and needs detailed clarification.
May I say ,for experience, I have inspected and classified thousands of US 45, 30 and 50 caliber weapons and taught theory of operation, trouble shooting, maintenance and repair to all Company Armorers of the Army 7th Division in '53-54.
I don't need any references to back up the above.
However, I have found a treatise by Dr David Basiji who after four years of research, properly goes into detail on wear testing and throat gaging in the classification of these rifle barrels. Instead of the U.S. style tapered Breechbore gage, they used a series of straight pin or plug gages to accomplish the same thing and that is condition and progress of throat erosion.
What these numbers mean and how they were arrived at may be academic
except that high numbers are bad and low numbers are good.
Anyone interested in Basiji's 16 pg. paper which includes the Ljungman may contact me for a copy which I will mail at cost.
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v35.....enjoyed reading the thread and the back and forth. I guess we will never know what the Swedish armorers did as they are probably in that great Viking Vahalla in the sky by now. But one thing is for certain, your last comment....."...high numbers are bad and low numbers are good." Truer words in Swedish mauser studies were never spoken (unless someone has changed the disc!). This Swedish mauser collector gives your props for the interesting give and take! 0 -
Ever heard of syntax?
Line breaks?
Paragraphs?
CP0 -
Yes, ever hear that substance trumps form?
An English grammar maven could develop ulcers reading text messages.
There's just so much I'm willing to put into this thing and the above borders on enough.
I have letters from Elmer Keith, Frank Barnes and others whose stilted grammar might prevent a pedant from getting to the subject matter; though with a little practice it's not really that difficult.
By the way, what's your point in making such comments on a technical forum in the Experts' column?0
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