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Two More Rimfires for the Experts to ID

swppopgun
Since I got such good results with my first ID help request, I have two more pieces of ammunition that I cannot ID.

#1 appears to be a rimfire shot shell in a stainless steel casing, overall length is 1.379", shoulder is approx. .45" long and .342 diameter, the shell diameter is .322", wad looks like green paper. The base is stamped with a circle and torch w/letters S U R.

#2 is a lead bullet in a rimfire copper case (or copper washed)approx. .575" long and .340" diameter, and base is stamped w/ letter U.

Thanks.

smallrimfire.jpg
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Comments

8 comments

Date Votes
  • elubsme
    #2 is a U.M.C. (before Remington bought them) BB cap (bulleted breach) used for short range or indoor shooting. E.Z.
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  • quickmajik
    The second bullet is gallery or indoor,

    opps, I didnt know UMC made them in any chambering besides .22..
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  • swppopgun
    quote:Originally posted by quickmajik
    The second bullet is gallery or indoor 22 short, I beive it has no propellent, the primer alone propels the bullet, may not be safe in rifles, though I have shot some just like it through bolt actions with no ill effects. Most likely atleast 30 years old. I believe the "bullet" is round.

    never seen anything like the first one..


    The diameter of the second bullet is way bigger than .22, almost like it is .32.
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  • Tailgunner1954
    Fuzzy pic, but one looks like a brass cased 9mm RF shot shell (double charge length), and the other is a 9mm Flobert Ball load

    Picture_129.jpg

    #4 is the paper version of your brass one
    #3 is the single charge version (there is also a triple charge)
    These were used as "Garden guns" to keep the pests out of the house garden BTW

    Cartridges020.jpg
    2nd row up, the group of 4 are 9mm RF shot loads (triple, double (paper) double (brass) single

    Edit (and just for clarity) your 9mm Flobert is near the center of the top full row (just left of the 3 41 Swiss rounds)
    Cartridges017.jpg
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  • swppopgun
    I think that you have properly identified them and your collection is interesting and impressive! Do either of these rounds have any collector value? I think I've got about 20 of the Flobert Ball and two of the stainless steel shot shells. I also have 3 boxes of Winchester (2 unopened) and one box of Fiochi 9mm Flobert long shot shells. I see a couple of auction listing for the Winchesters at $200-$275, but is that a reasonable starting bid price?
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  • heavyiron
    Hi,

    9mm "Flobert" round ball goes for approximately $0.50 per round.

    The stainless steel shot cartridge is probably a nickel plated gilding or steel case. Try a magnet on it. Stainless steel isn't any good for cartridges and is far too expensive and strategic a metal for cartridge cases. The "SUR" headstamp is used by Fiocchi to indicate non-corrosive priming. I can't tell from your photo but these appear to be contemporary cartridges. Also the "circle with a torch" symbol is referred to as the "flaming bomb". It is used by
    Guillo Fiocchi of Lecco Italy.

    Also the 41 Swiss cartridge with the "LB" headstamp from your previous post was made in Leon Beaux Company, Milan Italy. The company was liquidated sometime in the mid-1970s or mid-1980s. They also made 6.5 Carcano cartridges for the Italian military in the past.

    Regards,

    Heavyiron
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  • Tailgunner1954
    Swp
    Thanks, those are some older photo's (it's grown some in the 3 years since those were taken).
    The 41 Swiss, 9mm brass shot and 9mm Flobert's are quite common (I got my first of each for free, from a advanced collector).

    There is a Winchester shot loads that is considered "desirable" but that's only due to the rarity of the paper tube color (like anything else, there are many small things that effect desirability/value of cartridges). As far as what's on the auction side, it's a reasonable opening price only IF several people are bidding, otherwise IMHO no (IOW they can start anywhere they want, the proof is in if it sells at/above the opener).
    Boxes, especially unopened (and that literally means NEVER opened), have their own value to those folks that collect boxes.

    USN Airdale
    Thank you. I recently purchased up a Wingo cartridge but thank you for the offer.
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  • USN_Airdale
    Tailgunner, very nice collection, do you happen to have a "Wingo" rimfire shot shell ? if not i can send you one.

    a friend of mine back in the early 1970's was a manager of a Wingo place in San Diego, he gave me several boxes of those rounds when the place closed down.

    "Wingo" http://www.ammo-one.com/Wingo.html
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