Mannlicher Schoenaur full stock DOM
A Stoeger marked MS followed me home today. It's in 243 with a Burris 4-12 in an odd (to me) Leopold mount and DST.
S/N is 37429 and it's marked Steyr Daimler.
Comb style is level like the M1961MCA.
I've always lusted after a full stock MS in small caliber but never wanted to pay the freight.
What's the DOM and an estimate of value for the outfit in G-VG condition?
S/N is 37429 and it's marked Steyr Daimler.
Comb style is level like the M1961MCA.
I've always lusted after a full stock MS in small caliber but never wanted to pay the freight.
What's the DOM and an estimate of value for the outfit in G-VG condition?
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The Austrian Proof Marks possibly/should? include a two digit number that is a date. 0 -
The year is on the left side of the barrel over the chamber and also on the receiver ring on the left side. Also, many of them have the year on the bolt handle root on the top as you look down at it. If, as you noted, it's a 62, then it's probably a MCA and will be so marked on the receiver ring under that scope mount (which sounds like a Leupold "Adjusto-mount"). In that '62 era there was also a Model MC which had a dished out cheek-piece like the Model 1956 and a Model GK that had a pancake cheek-piece like the Model 1950 and 1952. However, your description of the comb makes it sound like an MCA. Your scope mount probably covers the rest of the receiver rail markings after "Steyr-Daimler". The rest of the markings are "-Puch A.G., Steyr". 0 -
I have a 1963-vintage Mannlicher-Schoenauer Model MCA, and have had a couple others. As stated the two-digit year of manufacture is usually easily seen where indicated. My carbine was not factory drilled and tapped on the front top of the receiver for scope mounts; later ones though, according to later-year Stoeger catalogs, came factory drilled-and-tapped. Stoeger was the exclusive US importer for most of the years. The holes on the side of the receiver on yours would have also been not factory drilled and tapped. Steyr did drill and tap the two holes along the angled surface just forward of the wing safety. Many mounts like Steyr's own, and the Redfield, attached the rear base back there. The Leupold Adjusto and the Bausch & Lomb were popular high-end mounts (and scopes) often used for this premium-priced rifle in those days (they typically listed for about double the price of a similar-vintage Winchester Model 70). Condition is everything; the carbines with full-length stock seem to bring a premium over the longer-barrel half-stocked rifle, but in .243 $1000 to $1500 would be likely from the auctions I have watched. A caliber 6.5x54 M-S carbine would likely bring way above that number. 0 -
I agree with everything PA Shootist says. I have a half dozen of these rifles and my 63 is not drilled and tapped in the receiver ring, either, while my 65 and 66 are. All three of these plus my 1957 have the tapped holes in the bridge as PA Shootist describes. I might add that, according to what I've read, the earlier rifles had metric tapping in those rear holes while later ones had our standard 6-48--Redfield bases came with both sets of screws so that you could use the ones that fit for that rear base.
So, no, your mount is not in factory holes. Four holes have been drilled; 2 in the receiver ring and 2 in the receiver rail. Your Leupold mount was designed to be used with scopes without internal adjustments. If that rifle were mine, I would remove that Burris scope and replace it with a Bausch and Lomb Balvar 8. There is nothing wrong with the Burris scope but Burris did not exist until 1972 so it's not period to your rifle. But that's just me! Enjoy your rifle.0 -
Thanks for the information.
Are the two tapped holes in front of the rear dovetail for Unertl blocks?
Does the bare Balvar just drop into the hinged Leopold rings?
I have a bright and light, Nickel Marburg 4x w/tapered post which might be more appropriate but finish is bad and low magnification may not do justice to the caliber.
Is there a parts and tech literature source for this rifle. I'm missing the rear sight and one screw could stand replacement.
Cocking effort is disappointing. It would seem cocking on closing might make for smoother operation especially with scope.0 -
Two tapped holes in front of the rear dovetail? Do you mean the rear-sight dovetail on the barrel? Those would have been definitely added later, if so, and very possibly for Unertl-style target blocks. Parts are tough; there is a modern-day source in Austria for some reproduction parts, but hold onto your wallet! A Bausch & Lomb Balvar 8 would fit 1" rings of a Leupold adjustable mount. 0 -
The Nickel scopes from the 1960's had 26mm (1.023") tubes. Maybe they made some with 1" tubes. Best check the tube diameter as finding 26mm tubes may be challenge. I collected the M-S Rifles and Carbines back in the 1970's. I never heard of nor saw a photo of one with scope blocks on the barrel for the long target scopes as made by Lyman and Fecker and later on by Unertl. The rifles had a very smooth bolt throw and I don't recall lifting the bolt to cock it being very difficult. Maybe the rifle you have has had someone messing with the caming surface. A little polishing or lubrication on the surfaces should help. 0 -
Yes the Nickel is 26mm so that's out.
The firing pin spring has to be the culprit unless the original was replaced or improperly assembled as the bolt is clean, shiny and well oiled. I'd like to get it nearly as smooth as an original 1903.
Surprisingly, the firing pin is 50% larger in diameter (.090) than modern high pressure firing pins so I'd be reluctant to lop off coils as primers would blow out at even lower pressures. Recently, I read pierced primers in an MS will give you a dangerous squirt in the eye. It has only one .078 gas vent hole in the bolt body to the '96 Swede's two .120 vents.
The reported gas handling weakness turned me off from a lifelong need for an FL Mannlicher until an $800 price tag overcame any resistance.
How do the bolt and magazine come apart for maintenance?0 -
I don't recall how to disassemble the bolt but to remove the magazine you press in on the release in the whole in the floorplate and while holding it in, turn the floorplate 90 degrees. It will then lift out. I never had need to remove the spindle so don't know how that is done.
I had one ruptured primer in a .270 Win cal MCA Rifle. The gas forced the firing pin back far enough to recock it. I was wearing shooting glasses and suffered no injury.
I presently own 6 1903 NRA Sporters that have smoothly working bolts but none of them is as smooth as the bolt throw on the M-S actions. There is a little spring loaded plunger that fits into a recess in the M-S bolt handle to keep the bolt handle down. That plunger may need some freeing up.0 -
Magazine removal as described above.
Disassembling the Mannlicher-Schoenauer magazine, from "The American Rifleman", September 1963, Edward J. Hoffschmidt:
"The magazine assembly should be cleaned and lightly oiled from time to time. To remove the follower, use a thin punch to depress the rear magazine bearing or front magazine bearing. When bearing is clear of its seat, lift out the follower. At this point the follower still contains the front and rear bearings and magazine spring.
"To remove the magazine spring and magazine follower bearings, use the magazine box as a wrench. Insert the tapered magazine bearing into the notch and turn the follower, and the bearing will unlock from the follower and can be pulled out with the magazine spring and rear bearing." Reassemble in reverse order.
Regarding the bolt:
"To disassemble the bolt, first rotate the cocking piece until it snaps all the way forward and firing pin protrudes from the bolt face. Then depress safety catch and turn the firing pin nut counterclockwise 90 degrees until it unlocks. Ease off the firning pin nut and cocking piece with the safety catch.
"After the cocking piece assembly has been removed, the firing pin and firing pin spring can be removed. Remember the firing pin is under heavy spring pressure, therefore hold the bolt head tight when turning it. Align the ejector with the rib on the bolt and ease off the bolt head.
"To replace the firing pin assembly, insert the pin and spring into the bolt. Put the bolt head over the firing pin and push the bolt head into the bolt, lining up the ejector with the rib on the bolt. Then turn the ejector 180 degrees opposite the bolt rib. The cocking piece can be reassembled by reversing the steps in the first paragraph."
I hope this is helpful; the process is actually easier than it sounds. PM me if you would like me to send you the scanned pages with drawings.0 -
Thanks for the magazine dismount procedure. It's neat.
It sounds like I should act on my first impression and that is to open
up that vent hole to .120 and investigate having the firing pin hole bushed to about .062.
I want to shoot this rifle not just polish it.
I don't get their thinking on fat firing pin diameters from the black powder era and todays' 50kpsi working pressure ammo.
The 1903 I was referring to was the early MS in 6.5.0
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