FFL Questions
Ok I am interised in finding out how much of a headach getting a FFL is. I don't feel it is a good idea to ask a dealer how to get one and what is involved. I know that it takes $200 for the first three years and $90 for the fallowing three. The reasons for getting it are due to stupid laws in IL, getting cheaper ammo for certan firearms, and getting firearms cheaply. Because of the laws I have to go through a dealer to get any of these. Also I do not live close to Cook County or Chicago which might make it easer. What is your input.
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Looking for some answers to few questions on the FFL please.
I have read parts of the GCA and the ATF website but not been able to find any real answers, is there such a thing as being licensed to sell out of you home or over the internet? I'm curious because I see all these ads saying you can. Now if I remember right the GCA lists 9 things? you must meet in order to be approved. I failed to see anywhere it said in order to be approved with the above the biggest reason is suppost to be for profit.
How are people being approved when they don't have a store front, my understanding is you have to have set store hours so you can be inspected by the ATF at anytime during those hours to ensure compliance, along with a few others things. I understand the morjority of the requirements to obtain one and the laws that must be follwed to maintain one.
I hope this makes sense to you all, and please forgive my ignorance on alot that pertains to the FFL requirements.
Thanks in advance0 -
Unless this is of a highly personal nature I encourage you post your questions here in the forum and we will be happy to answer them. 0 -
Thanks for answering my post. No it's not personal in nature.
A partner and I are currently looking to open a pawnbroking business. At this time I'm not sure our chosen location would permit us the sale of firearms. I am located in Wisconsin and we have some pretty ridiculous laws regarding firearms, both on the state and local levels. (School zone restrictions, residential, etc.) We are currently in the process of finding whether we will fall under these restrictions or not.
I understand that firearms could potentially be a large part of a pawnbroking business so I don't want to ignore the opportunity.
My question pertains to the "need" (for lack of a better word) for an FFL. In Wisconsin, private sales of firearms between individuals are perfectly legal. I also can't seem to find a limit on how many firearms may be bought or sold before an FFL would be required, if at all.
Now, if a private citizen were to enter my pawnshop and I don't have an FFL can I still BUY a gun from him? The gist of what I've come to understand about an FFL is that they are required to SELL firearms as a business/dealer. If I am in error please explain. If not, then what's to stop me from buying the firearms through the business and then selling them privately?
The only reference I have found in regards to the purchase of firearms by a pawnbroker in WI is as follows: "No pawnbroker, secondhand article dealer or secondhand jewelry dealer may engage in a transaction of purchase, receipt or exchange of any secondhand article, including firearms and ammunition, from a customer without first securing adequate identification from the customer and completing a form detailing a description of the firearm and identifying information on the person from whom received."
It makes no mention of an FFL. But as I said, it is my understanding that one would be required to resell.
On the same token, given that private sales/transfers are legal, what's to stop me from telling the customer: "Look, I can't buy this from you in the store... but if you meet me at my house in 2 hours I'll buy it from you."
Please keep in mind I am not trying to break the law or find any loopholes, I'm just failing to understand
I appreciate your response(s).0 -
If you engage in the business of dealing in firearms you need to have a license. There is no minimum number of firearms you need to sell in order to be "engaged in the business". It could be as little as one.
ATF has a FFL specifically for pawnbrokers, the 02FFL. FFL's are issued by the Federal gov not states.
quote:Now, if a private citizen were to enter my pawnshop and I don't have an FFL can I still BUY a gun from him? The gist of what I've come to understand about an FFL is that they are required to SELL firearms as a business/dealer. If I am in error please explain. If not, then what's to stop me from buying the firearms through the business and then selling them privately?
Regarding the passage in bold: Federal law prevents such a practice. It's called dealing firearms without a license and will get you at least ten years in Federal prison. Not to mention it would be embezzlement if you are in a partnership with someone else.
There is no law that requires an FFL to sell firearms or a certain number of firearms. The dealer IS required to be in the business of dealing in firearms- and selling isn't the only way to be in the business.0 -
dogtown pretty much covered it all before I could get back here to the forum. The BATFE does not set a specific number of firearms being sold before an FFL is needed because if they said that anyone selling more than (say) ten guns a year needs an FFL all that would happen is that no one would sell more than nine a year to get around the regulation. Quite simply if you are operating a business and you intend to accept or sell firearms at the location of the business then you are going to need an FFL. If you state/local business license is as a pawnbroker or second hand dealer then you'll need the Type 02. If you are operating a legitimate store front business then the questions from the BATFE are going to be very few and provided there are no state or local regulations standing in your way you should receive an FFL with no problem. 0 -
The FFL question has been answered, but you used a word that scared me half to death. "PARTNER."
No way would I ever take on a partner. I might hire an employee or a consultant, or I might work for someone as an employee or consultant, but no way would I consider a partner.0 -
quote:Originally posted by oofdah
Thanks for answering my post. No it's not personal in nature.
A partner and I are currently looking to open a pawnbroking business. At this time I'm not sure our chosen location would permit us the sale of firearms. I am located in Wisconsin and we have some pretty ridiculous laws regarding firearms, both on the state and local levels. (School zone restrictions, residential, etc.) We are currently in the process of finding whether we will fall under these restrictions or not.
I understand that firearms could potentially be a large part of a pawnbroking business so I don't want to ignore the opportunity.
My question pertains to the "need" (for lack of a better word) for an FFL. In Wisconsin, private sales of firearms between individuals are perfectly legal. I also can't seem to find a limit on how many firearms may be bought or sold before an FFL would be required, if at all.
Now, if a private citizen were to enter my pawnshop and I don't have an FFL can I still BUY a gun from him? The gist of what I've come to understand about an FFL is that they are required to SELL firearms as a business/dealer. If I am in error please explain. If not, then what's to stop me from buying the firearms through the business and then selling them privately?
The only reference I have found in regards to the purchase of firearms by a pawnbroker in WI is as follows: "No pawnbroker, secondhand article dealer or secondhand jewelry dealer may engage in a transaction of purchase, receipt or exchange of any secondhand article, including firearms and ammunition, from a customer without first securing adequate identification from the customer and completing a form detailing a description of the firearm and identifying information on the person from whom received."
It makes no mention of an FFL. But as I said, it is my understanding that one would be required to resell.
On the same token, given that private sales/transfers are legal, what's to stop me from telling the customer: "Look, I can't buy this from you in the store... but if you meet me at my house in 2 hours I'll buy it from you."
Please keep in mind I am not trying to break the law or find any loopholes, I'm just failing to understand
I appreciate your response(s).
This is the part of the post that I didn't understand. If you think WI is bad you should look at other states. WI has pretty relaxed firearm laws.0 -
i agree 100% wisconsin has some pretty crappie gun laws.thats why we are only one of 2 states that will not allow CCW we need to get those liberal poopheads out of the state capital.starting with that bald headed gov we have.the city of madison is one of the most liberal citys there is and there proud of it.to bad that whole dam city wouldnt get sucked up by a very large sink hole.gggggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr [:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][V][V][V][V][V][V] 0 -
Bottom line as I understand 18 USC 922- If you are "engaged in the business" of buying and selling firearms (and that includes making a loan with a firearm as security on the loan) then you need an FFL. A pawnbroker has an 02 FFL. The term "Engaged in the business" means that you devote time and attention to making a livelihood from this. As stated, there is no set number of guns. But pawn (or buy) a gun for $100, and sell it within a month for $200, I'll betcha that will be considered to be "in the business". IF you want to be in the gun business, AND CAN MEET ALL LOCAL AND STATE LAWS- including zoning- then get the 02 FFL. If you don't want to do it, then do NOTHING with firearms. Do not even TRY to do things halfway- you will meet the guys in cheap suits with bulges. 0 -
Taking firearms on pawn can work out both or either way for you. Good or bad. With the Brady Background check you are required to do a background check before returning a pawned firearm. A high percentage of people who pawn things regularly are not permitted to own firearms, therefore they will either not have firearms to pawn, can not pawn them, or will try pawning them and then try to get them back. While I do not do pawning myself I have two friends who each operate a pawn shop. They have both gone out of the firearms business since the Brady Bill went into effect because it just wasn't worth the hasslel. 0 -
I appreciate everyones replies. We had already decided we would most certainly get an FFL, it's just that the info I was seeing was so vague. 0 -
Oh and to answer "nun" - normally I would agree as I currently own a business.
However, he is an expert in the field of numismatics along with a few other things that I don't have the time to learn right now [:)], plus I need the combined capital.
I'm willing to give it a year. If it pans out, fantastic. If not, I still have my current business to fall back on as I will be doing both at the same time. This is simply an opportunity to make more $$.
A partner is not a bad thing. My high school friend Ron and I operated our own gun shop together for over 20 years and I would have never enjoyed running the shop without having him along side me (he did most of the work [;)])0
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