45 vs 223
i am looking into AR 15 type rifles and came across a Feather AWI Eaton rifle 45 ACP. Any thoughts vs the 223 cal and this rifle?
Also looking at the High Standard HSA 15 and CMMG 223
Also looking at the High Standard HSA 15 and CMMG 223
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Depends on how you intend to use it.... 0 -
I'm sure someone will be along who can offer opinions about the AWI, but as far as the .45 vs. the .223, it really depends on what you want it for. If your primary interest is home security, I'd go with the .45. Plinking and longer range varmint shooting; then the .223 would be a better choice. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by murphytb
i am looking into AR 15 type rifles and came across a Feather AWI Eaton rifle 45 ACP. Any thoughts vs the 223 cal and this rifle?
Also looking at the High Standard HSA 15 and CMMG 223
home protection mostly and target shooting....0 -
Feather is an entirely different sort of gun than the usual .223 AR-15.
http://www.guns-rifles-firearms.com/index.htm
In general, pistol-caliber carbines work best for defensive use at short range (ie under 100 yards, including indoors) or recreational "plinking" type shooting. If appropriately designed, they may also have the advantage of sharing magazines with a pistol. Because of their subsonic velocity, pistol rounds are a bit easier to make quiet with a suppressor, if that is something you might be interested in.
.223 rifle is going to have more absolute power, and push that power further out.
AR-15 platform is also highly modular, and if you wanted to, you could switch out the ordinary .223 upper for one in .45ACP (or 9mm luger, or .22LR, or 7.62x39, or any one of about a dozen other rounds).
Feather is smaller than an AR-15 and can be broken down for compact storage (ie in a briefcase or backpack). Feather also has a reputation for less-than-stellar reliability.
Again, which one is "better" depends a lot on what you are trying to do with it. If you needed a discrete long-gun for urban carry/use the Feather might be a good choice. AR-15 is going to be a better choice for hunting or general combat/fighting
EDIT: Home protection and target shooting? How big is your home? What are you protecting it from?
Unless you live on a farm or have a large piece of land attached to your house, or think you might have to repel a gang of drug dealers, a rifle is probably not the best choice for your task. Assuming you live in a normal house in a normal neighborhood, I'd suggest "none of the above".
For recreational target shooting, I'd suggest a .22LR rifle. This could also double as a gun for survival and/or small game hunting.
For home defense, either a 12 gauge shotgun, or .357 revolver. Each has its own plusses and minuses, which are beyond the scope of this post.
The total cost of a decent .22 rifle *AND* a good 12 gauge shotgun TOGETHER is still going to be less than that of an AR-15 type rifle.0 -
Originally posted by beantownshootah
Feather is an entirely different sort of gun than the usual .223 AR-15.
http://www.guns-rifles-firearms.com/index.htm
In general, pistol-caliber carbines work best for defensive use at short range (ie under 100 yards, including indoors) or recreational "plinking" type shooting. If appropriately designed, they may also have the advantage of sharing magazines with a pistol. Because of their subsonic velocity, pistol rounds are a bit easier to make quiet with a suppressor, if that is something you might be interested in.
.223 rifle is going to have more absolute power, and push that power further out.
AR-15 platform is also highly modular, and if you wanted to, you could switch out the ordinary .223 upper for one in .45ACP (or 9mm luger, or .22LR, or 7.62x39, or any one of about a dozen other rounds).
Feather is smaller than an AR-15 and can be broken down for compact storage (ie in a briefcase or backpack). Feather also has a reputation for less-than-stellar reliability.
Again, which one is "better" depends a lot on what you are trying to do with it. If you needed a discrete long-gun for urban carry/use the Feather might be a good choice. AR-15 is going to be a better choice for hunting or general combat/fighting
EDIT: Home protection and target shooting? How big is your home? What are you protecting it from?
Unless you live on a farm or have a large piece of land attached to your house, or think you might have to repel a gang of drug dealers, a rifle is probably not the best choice for your task. Assuming you live in a normal house in a normal neighborhood, I'd suggest "none of the above".
For recreational target shooting, I'd suggest a .22LR rifle. This could also double as a gun for survival and/or small game hunting.
For home defense, either a 12 gauge shotgun, or .357 revolver. Each has its own plusses and minuses, which are beyond the scope of this post.
The total cost of a decent .22 rifle *AND* a good 12 gauge shotgun TOGETHER is still going to be less than that of an AR-15 type rifle.
great info.thanks for the detail response - actually I have several of the above, 38 special and 9mm handguns, 12 gauge, 22's, 17 cal, etc....started looking at the AR 15 just in case the "outlaw" thing actually happens and thought the 45 may be a cheaper shooting vs 223, easier to get ammo and better for home protection0 -
quote:Originally posted by murphytb
great info.thanks for the detail response - actually I have several of the above, 38 special and 9mm handguns, 12 gauge, 22's, 17 cal, etc....started looking at the AR 15 just in case the "outlaw" thing actually happens and thought the 45 may be a cheaper shooting vs 223, easier to get ammo and better for home protection
If you want an AR-15 for its own sake (and lots of people love them), then so be it.
But if you just want to reach out a little further than you can with an ordinary pistol or shotgun, you can simply buy a few boxes of slugs for your shotgun. If you set up a shotgun with "ghost-ring" (ie peep) or simple rifle-like sights then you can reach out up to 100 yards (or even a bit more) with the slugs, and they still pack quite a wallop out at that distance (ie more than ANY .45ACP carbine). You can choose to load the gun with slugs or buckshot, depending on the circumstances, giving you quite a bit of versatility.
Also, given your other collection, instead of a .223 or .45ACP, you might consider a 9mm carbine instead, so you can share ammo and maybe even magazines with your pistol(s). There are plenty of good 9mm carbines out there and many aren't too expensive.
If you "had" to go with a .45ACP carbine, I'm not sure the Feather is the best choice for this application. They're not cheap, and again, reliability is questionable.
If you are looking at a semi-automatic, for this role, you might also consider a Kalashnikov variant gun. You'll give up a *little* accuracy, but this shouldn't be important at 100 yards or so, and you'll gain in lower maintenance, cheaper ammo, a significantly cheaper gun, and a bit more power.
Lastly, you don't necessarily "have" to have a semi-automatic rifle. Lever action carbine is highly underrated as a defensive gun, in my opinion. So long as the ammo is appropriate, they're highyreliable, fairly accurate, and pack quite a wallop in 357 magnum (which will get you something like 10 rounds). With a little practice, rate of fire is pretty high, and again, you can share ammo with your revolver.0 -
The.223/5.56 in my opinion is more size appropriate than .45ACP One is a riffle round for a riffle that has evolved to a standard of excellence and can also used in an a/r pistol. 45ACP is a good round for close encounters having it in a riffle size seems awkward at close range. 45ACP has a large fan club so many firearms will be calibered for it. 9MM was thrown out in the forum for universal compatibility with a pistol.9MM is way cheaper to shoot and seems to maintain decent velocities for a hand gun round like at 50yrds although some 45ACP fan most likely will find a comparable 45 round nullifying my commentary. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 511pe
The.223/5.56 in my opinion is more size appropriate than .45ACP One is a riffle round for a riffle that has evolved to a standard of excellence and can also used in an a/r pistol. 45ACP is a good round for close encounters having it in a riffle size seems awkward at close range. 45ACP has a large fan club so many firearms will be calibered for it. 9MM was thrown out in the forum for universal compatibility with a pistol.9MM is way cheaper to shoot and seems to maintain decent velocities for a hand gun round like at 50yrds although some 45ACP fan most likely will find a comparable 45 round nullifying my commentary.
You do raise a good point, that the relatively slow and heavy .45ACP slug loses velocity quickly, and gets a rainbow-like trajectory much out past 50 yards.
I suppose in theory its possible to create a super-light .45 round that gets a flatter trajectory, but I've never seen any .45ACP loads that compare that way to 9mm luger rounds. A round with a bullet that light probably isn't going to cycle most .45ACP pistols, sort of defeating the purpose of the whole exercise.
Also, on first principles, it doesn't really make sense to try to turn a .45ACP into a 9mm luger, when 9mm rounds are cheaper, and offer higher capacity. Its not like 9mm luger out of a carbine is such a spectacular load anyway. .45 ACP was designed as a handgun round for short range use, and it excels in that particular application. Again, in my opinion, it just doesn't make sense to try and transform the .45ACP into a rifle round, when there are so many better rounds for that already.
If you really think you may need to engage targets past 50 yards, you're going to be much better off with an actual rifle-caliber rifle, rather than a pistol-caliber carbine.
And again, if the idea is just to have something quick and dirty to reach out a little to protect the farm/homestead, I'd suggest an AK variant. Its going to be more reliable than most every .45 carbine, cheaper (in fact a decent AK is cheaper than most .45 pistols), and hold a higher capacity of ammo that is both more powerful than any .45ACP yet also less expensive!
None of the AKs are all that light in weight, but if you get one with a folding stock, they can be relatively compact.0
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