calibers
what is the difference between the 7.62 nato the winchester 308 and the 7.62x39 i believe the 7.62x39 is equal to a 30/30 is the 7.62 nato the same as a 308 are they interchangeable thanks hank also how can i improve the sights on my 1911 military spec. pistol im having trouble picking up the front sight even with my glasses on
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We are going to open a can of worms that has been opened so many times over the past decade that I can't even count the numbers of posts dedicated to the subject.
Basically the .308 and the 7.62X51 NATO STANAG cartridges are the same. However, the two rounds are not in fact identical, there are minor physical differences between the two cartridges, their loadings, powder types and the dimensions of the brass case. The use of commercial sporting ammunition in military style rifles is not a good idea, at least not in my opinion. Rifles like the HK-91 and the FAL/LAR rifles are designed to function properly using NATO spec ammunition while loadings in commercial rounds can vary and this can cause a host of problems with functioning.
The 7.62X39mm round is an intermediate sized cartridge which is smaller and has less power than the .308/7.62 NATO round.
The top cartridge is a 7.62 NATO STANAG round, very typical of the types used by many of the world's military forces. The lower cartridge is the 7.62X39 which is widely used in the former Soviet states and current/former ComBloc nations. As you can see, the 7.62X39mm cartridge is much shorter in OAL.
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To add to what Mark said...
Regarding 30/30 vs 7.62x39:
quote:Originally posted by Heavyiron
The 7.62x39 and the .30-30 are very similar. Many people condemn the 7.62x39 as barely adequate for medium game like deer, but in some respects it is just as good if not better than the .30-30.
First of all, 7.62x39 is now offered by every major ammunition maker including Winchester and Remington. Therefore, the 7.62x39 is not limited by military ball, powder or cases. These companies offer a modern high performance ballistic package for the 7.62x39 so, components are not an issue. Winchester and Remington also offer brass, boxer cases as well so you can "roll your own".
Next, best 7.62x39 125 and 150 grain spitzer loads typically match best .30-30 flat point or round nose load energy at 100 yards. At 200 yards there is no equal comparison - the 7.62x39 beats the .30-30 by 20% in the velocity/energy department because there is less drag on the spitzer bullet.
So the answer to your question is "Yes" with modern sporting components which are readily available the 7.62x39 is just as good as the .30-30 and a little better with distance.
Regards,
Heavyiron
For better visibility on the front sight, how about a fiber optic front sight?
This happens to be a Dawson precision, but there are many out there.0 -
Focus on the front, and leave the rear sight go.
Mark is right on as usual with his descriptions of the cartridges.
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quote:Originally posted by krawiech
what is the difference between the 7.62 nato the winchester 308 and the 7.62x39 i believe the 7.62x39 is equal to a 30/30 is the 7.62 nato the same as a 308 are they interchangeable thanks hank also how can i improve the sights on my 1911 military spec. pistol im having trouble picking up the front sight even with my glasses on
Expanding even more, the military 7.62x51 NATO round is designed to certain specs to operate military rifles.
The civilian .308 Winchester round is similar in overall dimensions, but the brass is a little different, and it can be loaded in all sorts of ways with different kinds of bullets for different purposes.
The commercial .308 Winchester rounds *MAY* be loaded to higher pressures than the NATO rounds, and full power .308 rounds can potentially damage operating rod systems in semi-automatic guns. In practice, many of the commercial rounds are still loaded to within military spec.
In short, while you can fire military surplus 7.62x51 NATO through your bolt action hunting rifle if you like, firing .308 Winchester through your M1 semi-auto rifle may not be such a good idea.
7.62x39 is the round used in AK and SKS rifles. It was originally designed as a steel case round, explaining the strong tapered case shape to help extraction (steel being less elastic than brass). Yes, powerwise, this one is roughly similar to 30/30 Winchester, though the 7.62x39 round itself uses pointed (not flat) bullets, and the case is rimless (for easy stacking in banana-shaped box magazines).
Despite the same "7.62" name, the 7.62x39 actually uses .312 caliber bullets, while the 7.62x51 uses a true .308 caliber bullet. Usual bullet weights are also different.
For pistol sights, cheapest easiest solution to increase the front sight visibility is just to put a dab of brightly colored enamel paint on it to help you see it against a dark background. Nail polish works, though you can certainly use a specialty enamel designed for this purpose. I usually use red (since I happen to have a bottle of the stuff), but obnoxious day-glo orange, yellow, or green could work just as well or better.
Obviously, your glasses lens prescription has to be working to the point where you are physically capable of focusing on the front sight. If you can't do that, no amount of changing the front sight is going to help.
Fiber optic front sight is an excellent solution too, though this will cost a bit more and require installation.
Here's a Novak; there are others on the market that are good too:0 -
thanks for all the info it has helped me out a lot now i can go look for fiber optic sights for my 1911 as for the 308 info that helped also my real question is the dpms in 7.62 the same caliber as the 308 from what i read here they are not interchangeable so im inclined to follow that information rather than screw something up thanks a lot again hank 0
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