9MM Luger part 2
Just found this, now it's off to search for some:
It is an interesting artifact of post-World War II ammunition development that in the United States, Lugers have often been maligned as being unreliable and prone to jamming. This is because typical factory-spec American 9 mm ammunition is nowhere near as hot as German military-spec ammunition-modern loadings in Europe are typically closer to old military loads. Currently the ammunition which Lugers were designed for falls into +P or +P+ SAAMI specs for 9 mm ammunition.
-OR- is anyone shooting standard American 9MM rounds with any success ?
It is an interesting artifact of post-World War II ammunition development that in the United States, Lugers have often been maligned as being unreliable and prone to jamming. This is because typical factory-spec American 9 mm ammunition is nowhere near as hot as German military-spec ammunition-modern loadings in Europe are typically closer to old military loads. Currently the ammunition which Lugers were designed for falls into +P or +P+ SAAMI specs for 9 mm ammunition.
-OR- is anyone shooting standard American 9MM rounds with any success ?
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The 9mm ammunition used in the 1903 US Army tests was furnished in two loadings, one about 1050 fps, one about 1090 fps with a 123 grain bullet. Hardly +P, but then they were being shot in the Old Model ribband spring action guns. Were P08 loads "hotter"? I don't know. Lee Jurras shot a variety of WW II surplus in his pressure test barrel and found that pressures were not high. The high velocity, bright flash, and loud report attributed to the "hot" German ammo were due to wartime expedient powders and bullets. No flash supressant and no lead; respectively.
A friend's 1923 Finn with Tikka 9mm barrel is unrelible with mild econo ball or noticeably more energetic European ammo. But it runs like a champ on my IDPA subsonic ammo, a 145 at 890 fps. Hot? No, but it does have something the Luger likes, a roundnose bullet at maximum OAL.
"What was, in other words, the bullet weight way back when-when no other firearm except the Luger pistol used the 9mm ammo?"
See above; in 1903 it was 123 grains (probably 123.44 gr, 8 grams). I don't know what they settled on for the P08.0 -
quote:Originally posted by berdes
-OR- is anyone shooting standard American 9MM rounds with any success ?I've not been aware that one needed any more beefed up 9mm than standard American ammo. If one of my Lugers stovepiped, I usually changed the mainspring. Until this post, I didn't know there was a problem with the Luger and its ammo.0 -
Lugers are noted for being 'picky' when it comes to ammo. The two things a Luger needs to function properly are (a.) recoil, and (b.) something to recoil against. The 147gn load noted above will give more recoil than a 115gn. loading, also 'lip wristing' is a big no/no. 0 -
Just for clarification: What bullet weight did the designers have in mind when the final spring rate, etc. was agreed upon?
What was, in other words, the bullet weight way back when-when no other firearm except the Luger pistol used the 9mm ammo?
Thanks, Joe
EDIT
Thanks, Hairy (response immediately below)
Joe0 -
quote:Originally posted by givette
Just for clarification: What bullet weight did the designers have in mind when the final spring rate, etc. was agreed upon?
What was, in other words, the bullet weight way back when-when no other firearm except the Luger pistol used the 9mm ammo?
Thanks, Joe
115 gr.0 -
The original Luger round (DWM 480C) had a 124 grain bullet and a velocity of 1250fps.
The cupro-nickel jacketed bullet had a truncated bullet form.0
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