9X19 .9mm in a 9X21??
The standard 9X19 .9mm should work in a 9X21. Anyone tried this? "Thanks"
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NO, any of the 9mm's heqadspace on the case mouth, in this case you would have 42mm excess headspace (not good)
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"Thanks" Mike; thats what I thought. It will probably work, but not a good idea. 0 -
To expand a bit, if you're talking about the 9x21mm IMI cartridge, that round was specifically designed so that you *can't* shoot 9mm luger in it.
9x19 luger case is 19.15mm.
9x21 case is 21.15 mm, so, yes there is exactly a 2mm difference.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this means 2mm extra headspace (not 4mm).
Now, would it work if you tried it anyway? Maybe. . .maybe not.
I think there is a good chance the 9mm luger rounds would be loose in the longer chamber and wouldn't go off at all.
*IF* the round is held in place by the extractor rim then you might be to get a good enough hit on the primer to set off the round. In other words, now you're headspacing on the extractor rim instead of the case mouth.
At best, I think you'd have poorer than normal accuracy as the bullet has to jump an extra 2mm into the chamber. I think you might get erosion carbon buildup at the front of the chamber, and that would require vigorous cleaning before going back to 9x21mm.
Depending on how good/bad the seal was between the 9mm luger case and the chamber, you might stretch out the brass making it non-reloadable (remember unlike .38/357 cases, 9mm cases are a bit tapered).
Since the chamber diameter is fairly similar, I doubt you'd get a catastrophic case rupture or gas-blowback, but short of a life-or-death emergency, I don't think there is a good reason to mess around with this.
Which gun are you talking about?
If you want to shoot 9mm luger from your 9x21 gun, you should be able to get a drop-in 9x19mm barrel that will let you shoot ordinary 9mm with nothing more than a quick barrel swap. Springs and mags stay the same.0 -
Bull! 9mm handguns are controlled feed, i.e. as the slide goes into battery the rim of the 9mm cartridge is pushed from the magazine by the lower face of the breech block and is held against the face of the breech block by the extractor. This means the rear surface of the extractor is what establishes headspace.
When I owned a Springfield armory 9 X 23 I use to fire 9mm Luger ammo through it without any problems, as long as I used a 9mm Colt magazine. One time for S & G I crooned the 9mm cartridges fired in the 9 X 23 chamber. They lost something on the order of 100 FPS due to the "jump" in the longer chamber, but they functioned the 9 X 23 pistol, just fine.0 -
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
Bull! 9mm handguns are controlled feed, i.e. as the slide goes into battery the rim of the 9mm cartridge is pushed from the magazine by the lower face of the breech block and is held against the face of the breech block by the extractor. This means the rear surface of the extractor is what establishes headspace.
Good point. I probably should have said the 9x21 was designed so that it can't fit in a 9x19, not the other way around!
Where exactly you're headspacing depends on tolerances (and the exact design in question), but that seems fair to me. If the extractor is tight, but the chamber is loose, you should be functionally headspacing on the extractor.
As above, if so, you'll probably be OK safety-wise with 9mm luger in a 9x21 gun since operating pressures and case diameters are similar, but you'll likely lose a bit of potential accuracy and get fouling in your chamber.
Thinking about this further, IIRC, even though the 9x21 cases are longer, overall length of the two rounds is roughly the same, so that could reduce accuracy and velocity loss in this case.
Still, if you want to do this, it seems better to just find a 9x19mm luger barrel, since any gun designed for 9x21 IMI ought to have a drop-in 9mm luger barrel to convert it. If this is a Tanfoglio gun, for example, 9x19mm barrels aren't hard to come by, and they should run on the order of $100.
For Rufe, you say you lost 100fps from 9x19 in the 9x23 gun, that's interesting, but out of curiosity, what were you comparing against? As an aside, 9x23 guns are built like tanks for the sky-high pressures associated with that round, so I'd think in general they'd provide you with an extra margin of safety for this sort of shenanigans.0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
For Rufe, you say you lost 100fps from 9x19 in the 9x23 gun, that's interesting, but out of curiosity, what were you comparing against? As an aside, 9x23 guns are built like tanks for the sky-high pressures associated with that round, so I'd think in general they'd provide you with an extra margin of safety for this sort of shenanigans.
I cronnod the same 9mm ammo through a standard 9mm barrel. As I recall the SA 9 X 23 had a fully supported barrel. I actually had two 1911A1 frames that I set up for 9 X 23. The other was a Caspian that had a 9 mm Colt barrel that had been rechambered by a local gunsmith. I don't remember at this late date but I think I actually cronnod the 9mm rounds through the Caspian by just changing the barrels.0 -
"Thanks" for all the info. It`s a Ruger pistol. May try one round or two. 0 -
well, let go a little further, 'can' you shoot a 9x19mm in a 9x21 (or 9x23)= yes it probably will fire. 'should' you do this=NO you still have exsesive headspace. While the pistol in question may be somewhat "controlled feed" the extractor should never be depended on for headspacing (you can fire a 7x57mm in a .280 rem. mauser action also, but certainly not a good idea). In a life/death situation maybe, otherwise HELL NO. 0 -
A little off topic, but I have watched .40 s&w fired in a 10 mm glock
mod. 20 the rounds have to enter the chamber from the mag so the rim will catch under the extractor and be held against breech face to fire. I also ran spanish .380 truncated cone surplus through a beretta
m92sf with no malfunctions at all (~80 rds.).
I will then say If 9x19 is under extractor from mag you are good to go
9x21 was developed to circumvent a ban on having a firearm chambered
in a military cal. in europe.
On paper they are different but as to really preventing the using of
nato ammo, I wont tell if you dont.0 -
quote:Originally posted by MIKE WISKEY
well, let go a little further, 'can' you shoot a 9x19mm in a 9x21 (or 9x23)= yes it probably will fire. 'should' you do this=NO you still have exsesive headspace. While the pistol in question may be somewhat "controlled feed" the extractor should never be depended on for headspacing (you can fire a 7x57mm in a .280 rem. mauser action also, but certainly not a good idea). In a life/death situation maybe, otherwise HELL NO.
Right on.
It is often possible to fire a short cartridge in a long chamber, but if the round manages to go in ahead of the extractor and the firing pin protrusion is long enough to reach the primer, then when the case walls expand and grip the chamber, the unsupported head may then move to the rear, stretching itself off of the case body. Chamber and ammunition dimensions should be kept compatible.0
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