44 mag vs 9mm
Just in general-
Is a 9mm w/4.9" barrel more accurate than a 44 mag w/4" barrel in both short/med/long range?
Is a 9mm w/4.9" barrel more accurate than a 44 mag w/4" barrel in both short/med/long range?
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The short answer to your question is no, not in the least. Accuracy has nothing to do with barrel length, other than theoretically with sight radius. I have seen a 2 1/2 inch Colt Diamondback in 38 special that I would not hesitate to take to a IPDA match for stock revolver class. There are many factors that do effect accuracy though.
Best0 -
There are many factors like the man said. Also weight of the projectile in each is a big component. As well as others. Typically the 9mm will win but it depends. 0 -
The .44 Magnum cartridge is based on the older .44 Special, which was based on the the even earlier .44 S&W Russian, both of which had an outstanding reputation for accuracy. The 9mm Luger/Parabellum is not inherently and accurate cartridge, although it will deliver acceptable groups at reasonable ranges. A 4 inch .44 Magnum with a good target load fired from a quality revolver (say an S&W Model 29) should easily out perform even the best 9mm target loading from nearly any stock 9mm automatic. 0 -
I've always questioned the concept of "inherent accuracy", but, that said,
I have owned a Smith 24, several 29 and 629's, and half a dozen SBH's from old flat tops to Hunters. All seemed to be born to make tight little groups and so far (knock on wood) I've never owned a .44 that wasn't very accurate.
A few years ago I wrote to Hamilton Bowen about some work I was thinking of having him do on my Hunter. He could have had a fair chunk of my change for his work (as good as any and better than most) but he responded that the way it was shooting, he wouldn't touch it. I didn't, although a couple of years later I did trade it in when something else caught my eye.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mark christian
The .44 Magnum cartridge is based on the older .44 Special, which was based on the the even earlier .44 S&W Russian, both of which had an outstanding reputation for accuracy. The 9mm Luger/Parabellum is not inherently and accurate cartridge, although it will deliver acceptable groups at reasonable ranges. A 4 inch .44 Magnum with a good target load fired from a quality revolver (say an S&W Model 29) should easily out perform even the best 9mm target loading from nearly any stock 9mm automatic.
Edit, to be clear, I do agree with the conclusion that a typical .44 magnum with target-quality ammo should be able to group tighter than a typical 9mm luger service pistol with match ammo, *in the hands of an experienced shooter, see below*.
Well, to be Devil's advocate here, the most accurate production gun in the world is a 9mm luger SIG P210, which won't leave the factory unless it groups under 5cm at 50 meters (that's roughly 2 inches at 50 yards). Its simply not fair to say the 9mm luger is an intrinsically inaccurate round when it can do this:
Now, in any discussion of accuracy, there are two important factors, what you might call "intrinsic" or "mechanical" accuracy, and then "practical" accuracy.
"Intrinsic" accuracy is a pure function of the gun and ammunition combination. Its how tightly the gun will group if you remove ALL human input, eg if you put the gun into a mechanical rest.
"Practical" accuracy is how well a human being holding the gun can hit what they are aiming at. Now things like trigger quality, sight radius, and sight design come into play. A gun can be super accurate, but if you give it poor sights and a heavy gritty trigger, nobody will be able to hit anything with it.
Revolvers tend to have high PRACTICAL accuracy, because in comparison to most autos, stock modern revolvers usually have excellent high visibility adjustable sights, crisp light single action triggers, and a relatively longer sight radius for similar barrel lengths. The fixed barrel design also tends to deliver good intrinsic/mechanical accuracy, subject of course, to the quality of the ammunition used.
The 9mm luger cartridge has earned a reputation for poor intrinsic accuracy, not really because the round can't shoot well (it obviously can, see above), but because its been manufactured in so many places all over the globe in and out of spec, and its been fired from every rattling piece-o-junk sidearm.
A QUALITY 9mm round fired from a GOOD gun is potentially as accurate as any comparable centerfire automatic pistol. That said, service-type automatics are usually designed for reliability, not accuracy, and most of them won't shoot super-tight groups out of the box. The 9mm round usually doesn't NEED high accuracy in typical use as a close-range defensive pistol round, and consequently many gun-and-ammo combinations won't deliver it.
Now to answer the original question:
quote:Just in general-
Is a 9mm w/4.9" barrel more accurate than a 44 mag w/4" barrel in both short/med/long range?
That depends mostly on (in order) the shooter, the gun, and the ammunition in question.
While in GENERAL, I'd say all else being equal most shooters will shoot a 4" barreled revolver SINGLE ACTION better than a standard service 9mm, the .44 magnum is a special case.
The stout recoil and huge blast of a .44 magnum can be disconcerting to some shooters, particularly novices, and in practice, these sorts of shooters may shoot better with a low-recoil 9mm.
If you're talking double-action, it takes quite a bit of practice to shoot the usual 10-12 lb double action revolver with pinpoint precision (regardless of caliber). So in the case of a DA revolver vs a SA 9mm, probably the average schmoe is going to shoot the single-action 9mm better. DA revolver vs DA auto? See above.
Edit #2:
Mark, the image in question isn't from my personal 210, but it gives the idea.
Obviously its not fair to compare a high end Swiss match-grade pistol to an off the shelf revolver; I only brought up the example of the P210 to refute this idea that the 9mm luger is intrinsically inaccurate. While I entirely agree with you that if accuracy is what you are after, you're probably better off starting with a nice Smith .44 magnum, its certainly *possible* to have a highly accurate 9mm luger.
Also, if fancy-schmancy Europeans guns don't float your boat, most of the tricks people do to accurize .45ACP 1911s, for example, can be done to accurize 9mm luger 1911s, with supposedly good result. . .(so long as you use good ammo).
By the way, going price for a 210-6 is probably about $2800. While you might be able to find a "lowly" P210-2 for "only" $2000. . .if you're lucky. . . if you can, its probably going to be a pretty beat-up one!
I'd guesstimate your kit with original locking case, test target, .22 conversion, extra mags, sight pusher, original cleaning kit, manual, and grips at maybe $3600-4000.
If you were lucky enough to have a similar set up that was documented MA-compliant. . .well. . .that might be something!0 -
Of course you need to pay $2,000+ for a base model P210 to achieve that level of accuracy and I am not sure that many will want to spend that price to get target level accuracy from a 9mm service automatic.
Here are the test target from one of my Own P210s (9mm and .22LR) for comparison to yours:
[img][/img]
[img][/img]0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
The short answer to your question is no, not in the least. Accuracy has nothing to do with barrel length, other than theoretically with sight radius. I have seen a 2 1/2 inch Colt Diamondback in 38 special that I would not hesitate to take to a IPDA match for stock revolver class. There are many factors that do effect accuracy though.
Best
Accuracy having NOTHING to do with barrel length isn't quite true, I think what you mean, is that there are other factors that may outweigh the barrel length, especially at that small difference.
For what it's worth, I had a 629 (44mag) with a 10 1/2" barrel that could compete with rifles in accuracy.0 -
Ham sandwich vs. roast beef sandwich. What will cure my hunger? 0 -
quote:Well, to be Devil's advocate here, the most accurate production gun in the world is a 9mm luger SIG P210, which won't leave the factory unless it groups under 5cm at 50 meters (that's roughly 2 inches at 50 yards).
S&W's 629 Classic DX (44 Magnum) was guaranteed to shoot less than 1.5" at 50 yards and came with a factory test target to prove it.
Jim0 -
quote:Originally posted by 45forme
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
The short answer to your question is no, not in the least. Accuracy has nothing to do with barrel length, other than theoretically with sight radius. I have seen a 2 1/2 inch Colt Diamondback in 38 special that I would not hesitate to take to a IPDA match for stock revolver class. There are many factors that do effect accuracy though.
Best
Accuracy having NOTHING to do with barrel length isn't quite true, I think what you mean, is that there are other factors that may outweigh the barrel length, especially at that small difference.
For what it's worth, I had a 629 (44mag) with a 10 1/2" barrel that could compete with rifles in accuracy.
Nope,I meant EXACTLY what I said. The only thing length has to do with is efficiency, and the loads you can use to get the utmost in efficiency.0
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