.458 SOCOM
I am interested in the concept of the .458 SOCOM (big guy, home defense) but will this ammunition cease to exist in the next 5 years. Would you purchase a gun chambered for this round?
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"Big Guy, home defense" = 12 gauge Saiga. Don't ever have to worry about the availability of ammo. 0 -
Thank you for the response. I have 2 x 12g shotguns. I have a house with big open rooms. I am concerned about the effectiveness at 20-30ft of a shotgun. I have a 870 in the corner by my bed but my mini-14 would be what I would go for if there was trouble.
I am not assuming a close quarters fight.0 -
quote:Originally posted by chicagohunter
Thank you for the response. I have 2 x 12g shotguns. I have a house with big open rooms. I am concerned about the effectiveness at 20-30ft of a shotgun. I have a 870 in the corner by my bed but my mini-14 would be what I would go for if there was trouble.
I am not assuming a close quarters fight.
Even with frangible bullets I would be concerned about shooting a mini indoors. A 12 gauge short magnum load with a 1 1/2 ounce of sixes would be better IMHO. Unfortunately at distances you noted, "20-30 ft", even with a cylinder bore shotgun there would not be a great deal of "Spread" with this load, and way to much penetration, i.e. you might be putting your wife and kids in jeopardy if they were in the next room.0 -
quote:Originally posted by chicagohunter
Thank you for the response. I have 2 x 12g shotguns. I have a house with big open rooms. I am concerned about the effectiveness at 20-30ft of a shotgun. I have a 870 in the corner by my bed but my mini-14 would be what I would go for if there was trouble.
I am not assuming a close quarters fight.
I'm a little puzzled by your request here. What do you consider "close quarters". . .anything less than 125 yards?
You don't think a 12 gauge shotgun is an effective defensive gun at a distance of 7-10 yards? Are you serious?
Have you ever actually tried shooting anything with buckshot at 7 yards? You might want to go out to the range and try it against a few gallon jugs, wooden boards, car doors, or telephone books before you knock it.
Personally, inside a big house like that, I'll take a 12 gauge over. . .well, just about anything. 12 gauge vs .223? I don't even think its close.
On your other question, personally I'd consider the .458 SOCOM to be wildly inappropriate for any indoor home defense gun (just as ANY high-powered large caliber rifle is inappropriate for that application).
I could see some (limited) military application for the round. It also could make a good choice for hunting moose or other large game at relatively short range, maybe.
And no, I wouldn't buy it.
If I wanted an AR-15 type gun with a more powerful round, I think I'd just get an AR-10 in .308, which will give me a lot more versatility. Plus, I can buy .308 ammo in any Walmart. . .and in ten years.
If you need to reach out to 100 yards, just drop a few slugs into your shotgun. Done.0 -
For some informative - real life - tests of various buckshot and gauge combinations - check out this site:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot45.htm0 -
Thank you for the information. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
quote:Originally posted by chicagohunter
Thank you for the response. I have 2 x 12g shotguns. I have a house with big open rooms. I am concerned about the effectiveness at 20-30ft of a shotgun. I have a 870 in the corner by my bed but my mini-14 would be what I would go for if there was trouble.
I am not assuming a close quarters fight.
I'm a little puzzled by your request here. What do you consider "close quarters". . .anything less than 125 yards?
You don't think a 12 gauge shotgun is an effective defensive gun at a distance of 7-10 yards? Are you serious?
Have you ever actually tried shooting anything with buckshot at 7 yards? You might want to go out to the range and try it against a few gallon jugs, wooden boards, car doors, or telephone books before you knock it.
Personally, inside a big house like that, I'll take a 12 gauge over. . .well, just about anything. 12 gauge vs .223? I don't even think its close.
On your other question, personally I'd consider the .458 SOCOM to be wildly inappropriate for any indoor home defense gun (just as ANY high-powered large caliber rifle is inappropriate for that application).
I could see some (limited) military application for the round. It also could make a good choice for hunting moose or other large game at relatively short range, maybe.
And no, I wouldn't buy it.
If I wanted an AR-15 type gun with a more powerful round, I think I'd just get an AR-10 in .308, which will give me a lot more versatility. Plus, I can buy .308 ammo in any Walmart. . .and in ten years.
If you need to reach out to 100 yards, just drop a few slugs into your shotgun. Done.
That was exactly what the .458 SOCOM was developed for. CQB. It's not a big high power round. It's actually a mid-power round with a big bullet that can be used in an AR-15 platform. Much like a super .45 +P. It's entire purpose was for building clearing and urban warfare.
It actually has a much broader usage in the military than in civilian use. Where 12 ga. shotgun rounds are extremely bulky and heavy, the weight of the .458 SOCOM isn't all that much. And, of course, the bulk is way less. This way you can effectively assault a building with hundreds of rounds in magazines instead of a few magazines that only hold a few rounds.
That said, in a civilian situation, a shotgun would be very effective. It's not likely you would be confronted by squad or team sized element trained in urban warfare. You would probably come up against one to three individuals self taught in robbing houses. If you had the misfortune of crossing an individual who thinks he needs to right himself by attacking you at your home in the dark you will find these people not nearly as well trained as they would like you to believe. You need to "stick to your guns" (pun intended) and keep pulling the trigger until you feel safe in your own home. In that case you will find a shotgun or AR in .458 SOCOM both very effective.0 -
I'd go with a saiga 12 and some MD20 drums... These drums are good quality and 12 guage slugs and buck are easy to find, and any other 2.75" shell will work in a pinch.
I have one in fact, reliable as can be, and I'd hate to be the target I'm shooting at within 100 yards.
the ability to switch between slugs, buck and bird is more versatile.
MD 20 drums, they are on sale from the maker for $125 each.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=161624041
krebs custom saiga12
http://www.krebscustom.com/KalashnikovRifles.shtml#SAIGA12
http://www.krebscustom.com/KalashnikovRifles.shtml#SAIGA12V
Slugs can be effectively accurate to 75 to 100 yards or farther with some practice.[;)]
for a rifle I'd pick the .50 beowulf. I'd buy a couple houndred rounds of factory ammo, and a couple thousand round of brass, and learn to load it hot and clean burning..
but as far as it goes, you could do the same thing with the .458 socom, buy a couple houndred factory loads, and a couple thousand pieces of brass, then learn to reload it to your needs and never worry about an ammo shortage. I'd also tell you to buy some extra platform specific parts, like extractors, magazines, followers, buffers and buffer springs while available.
A couple of things I've heard is a high quality bolt as is made by JP, an defender D-ring will help insure reliability with these big cases that use .223 type bolts. A pad to go onto the buffer will save stress on the buffer detent.0 -
Right on.
I like the .458 round because I own weak poop.0 -
The one advantage of the .458 SOCOM is that it uses the standard magzines, but at a greatly reduced count. A ten round 223 magazine will only hold 3 rounds of the SOCOM I believe. Not a good trade off, especially since my Benelli will hold 8 rounds.
The advantage of the 458 SOCOM versus other rounds chambered for the AR are that 458 bullets are readily available for reloading and use can use the standard 223 magazines.0
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