Aero Precision AR 57
I stumbled upon this AR57 and was curious about it. Does anyone have any expirence with this AR is it a quality weapon? What is the basis for the 5.7x28mm round? How new is this cartridge????
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5.7 X 28mm has been around for years now. Up till recently only FN made guns for it, now some guys are making AR uppers for it. It's a very controversial cartridge among gun people. Some folks think it the greatest thing since sliced bread, others regard it as a worthless joke that FN is trying to foist off, looking mostly for big buck government contracts.
Best thing for you to do would be to GOOGLE "fn 5.7 X 28", and start reading. There is a wealth of information regarding it on the net.0 -
Cartridge itself has been around for a few years.
It was designed for the p90 submachine gun:
In my opinion, from THAT platform, where its intended for close range urban fighting, its not a bad choice. From a long barrel you will get performance that is roughly comparable to a common .22 magnum rimfire cartridge.
I think the combination of super high-capacity, low recoil, and high penetration (assuming you are using the armor piercing rounds that are not generally available to the general public) together overcome the fundamental ballistics limitation of the round.
In other words, the ability to put out a LOT of high-penetration rounds quickly and accurately in burst (full auto) fire with the submachine gun makes up for the relatively low power of each individual round.
Being a high-powered centerfire .22, the cartridge itself *could* make an excellent choice as a small game/varmint type round, though I don't think the gun-shooting public at large and the gun manufacturers have quite caught onto this yet. IE, so far as I know NOBODY is putting out a production bolt-action gun in this round. . .yet.
I don't think this makes a good round for military type combat (its too weak), nor do I think that the cartridge makes a good choice for use in a defensive HANDGUN, where ballistics are even more limited than from a rifle.0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
Cartridge itself has been around for a few years.
It was designed for the p90 submachine gun:
In my opinion, from THAT platform, where its intended for close range urban fighting, its not a bad choice. From a long barrel you will get performance that is roughly comparable to a common .22 magnum rimfire cartridge.
I think the combination of super high-capacity, low recoil, and high penetration (assuming you are using the armor piercing rounds that are not generally available to the general public) together overcome the fundamental ballistics limitation of the round.
In other words, the ability to put out a LOT of high-penetration rounds quickly and accurately in burst (full auto) fire with the submachine gun makes up for the relatively low power of each individual round.
Being a high-powered centerfire .22, the cartridge itself *could* make an excellent choice as a small game/varmint type round, though I don't think the gun-shooting public at large and the gun manufacturers have quite caught onto this yet. IE, so far as I know NOBODY is putting out a production bolt-action gun in this round. . .yet.
I don't think this makes a good round for military type combat (its too weak), nor do I think that the cartridge makes a good choice for use in a defensive HANDGUN, where ballistics are even more limited than from a rifle.
Lest you forget about the destruction the Islamic Extremist wrought at Ft.Hood?
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Thanks Beany. I always enjoy your insight, and perspective on things, even though we do not agree 100% of the time. That is what makes it all interesting.0 -
Aero Precision doesn't make anything but lowers, so the lower has been finished by the owner. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
Lest you forget about the destruction the Islamic Extremist wrought at Ft.Hood?
I didn't forget about it; I just didn't want to bring it up here.
Not only does the incident at Ft. Hood not change my impression of this round, it only confirms it.
Without going into too much detail, in the incident you refer to, Dr. Nidal Hasan fired off an estimated 100 rounds from his Five-Seven 5.7x28 pistol in about ten minutes time, hitting 43 people and ultimately killing 13 of them. The cop who shot him, ending this rampage, was herself shot by Hasan three times.
On this incident, I'll submit the following:
-I didn't treat the shootees, but had Hasan used a more traditional (ie non .22 caliber) pistol round its likely that the injuries he caused would have been more severe, and more of the individuals he shot would have died. (I'm not the only one who made this observation, by the way).
-Its not clear to me to what extent the relatively low recoil of the pistol helped Hasan get off his shots quickly. I'd suggest that 100 shots in 10 minutes isn't a particularly high rate of fire. In other words, I think its likely that Hasan could have gotten out just as many rounds over the same time period with a gun in a bigger caliber.
Note that ordinary 5.7 pistol mags hold 20 rounds, and 30 round mags are available. I have no idea what kind of mags Hasan was using, only that he allegedly had a pocket full of them.
20 rounds seems like a lot, but if you're strictly after handgun capacity, ordinary sized flush-fit magazines that hold 20 rounds of 9mm luger are available for the common Beretta 92 service pistol, 19 round mags are available for CZ-75 pistols, and and mags that hold 17+ rounds are readily available for several other common makes. If you don't mind a long mag that sticks out the bottom of the gun, 33 round "stick" magazines are readily available for the Glock 9mm pistols. The point is, the capacity advantage of the 5.7 pistol may not be quite as much as you might otherwise think.
Bottom line for me is that ultimately the 5.7 is just a centerfire .22 magnum, with all of the benefits and liabilities associated with that particular round, out of what ought to be a more reliable platform.
Although it might make a reasonable choice for an individual who was recoil-shy, personally, I wouldn't carry one for defense, and I have no personal use for the pistol (not even out of curiosity). I suppose it goes without saying that I am not inclined to go on a mass shooting rampage, and the ability to shoot lots of rounds quickly doesn't particularly interest me.0 -
I was out shooting the other day a someone there had a FNH 5.7 pistol and put a old level 3 vest up as a target. He shot the vest with a 9mm ,40 cal and 45. the vest stopped all of them. He then fired 5.7 at it and it went right through. I assumed he was using the ss192 but was the ss197 that is still available. Tim 0 -
A local police dept went and bought all there officers the 5.7 pistols. The officers hate them. They said there great for penetration of armor or engines. But they would rather have their 357 sigs, 40s and 45s back for the stopping power. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Just Tim
I was out shooting the other day a someone there had a FNH 5.7 pistol and put a old level 3 vest up as a target. He shot the vest with a 9mm ,40 cal and 45. the vest stopped all of them. He then fired 5.7 at it and it went right through. I assumed he was using the ss192 but [it] was the ss197 that is still available. Tim
That's wonderful. . . .*IF* your goal is to shoot through ballistic armor with a pistol. Is it?
If so, I wouldn't exactly call that "defensive" shooting.
Also, once through the armor, you're only punching a small .22 caliber hole, creating a less severe wound than any of the more traditional rounds. You might make up for that by punching say 5-10 holes, something that easier to do with a submachine gun (which, again, is the whole point behind this round).
Without going too crazy about this, if your goal is JUST to defeat light armor, there are LOTS of relatively common rounds that could do that. For example, any of the big magnum pistol rounds (eg .44 magnum, .454 Casull, .460SW, .480 Ruger, .500SW, etc) will do it.
I'm pretty sure you can do it with more moderate magnum rounds like 10mm, .41 magnum, 9x23 Winchester or even .357 magnum, with the appropriate hot loads.
If you're on a budget, the old fashioned Tokarev (7.62x25) round will do that too, from a $200 surplus gun with surplus ammo costing $0.15 per round, and it will lay on a lot more hurt than a teensy .22 bullet along the way.
.22 magnum from a rifle will beat light armor, and, of course, so will pretty much ANY common centerfire rifle round.
Lastly, its possible to defeat light armor with nearly ANY service-type handgun caliber *IF* you use special armor piercing ammo. These deliberately-misnamed "cop killer" bullets aren't generally available to the public, but for SWAT or military who might legitimately need them, they could work.
The point is, while this round *could* be used to beat light armor, its not unique in that respect.
Also, not only does the average schmoe not need to do that, ammo that CAN do it is potentially a BIG LIABILITY.
Remember, that many shots miss their targets, and every bullet eventually stops SOMEWHERE. If a bullet can go through armor, it can also go through a door, a wall, a window, a car, etc. Armor piercing rounds GREATLY increase the chance for collateral damage in a shooting incident.
In a military setting, that's probably OK. In a domestic police setting. . .not quite so much, but at least in theory the ones shooting these are "trained professionals", and they're not using this sort of ammo without a specific reason. So to have these rounds available for the nightmare scenario of an armored crazy running amok (like the famous LA shooting). . .that might make sense.
But for self-defense for the average schmoe civilian? That's just asking for trouble.0 -
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