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Private party shipping to FFL Dealer

coachmb
As a Private party shipping a rifle to a Dealer do I need a copy of his FFL.
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Comments

16 comments

Date Votes
  • rufe-snow
    Yes both for your records and to show the shipper, if they want to be sure that it's being shipped to a FFL licensee. Some dealers have been trying to shuck and jive folks that all you need is the number off their license. Personally that doesn't fly with me. I would want a ink signed copy of the dealers FFL in my possession before shipping any firearm.
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  • nmyers
    No, but it may be the easiest way to get his FFL number.

    He can fax you a copy of his license, he can mail it to you, or he can even tell you the number; in all cases, you should use ATF EZ-Check (on the ATF website) to verify the number & address.

    And, you must be sure that the dealer is willing to accept a gun from a nonlicensee.

    Neal
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  • David Nunn
    And you should send the FFL a copy of your ID or DL with a current address on it.
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  • mark christian
    The regulations do not mandate that a dealer provide a copy of his license to a non licensee, but he does have to demonstrate that he holds a valid FFL. This can be accomplished by giving you his FFL number and having you verify the validity of his license using he ATF's FFL EZ-Check system. Licensees, both parties being dealers, by regulation must exchange valid copies of the FFLs and this can be done by mailing hard copies or by sending copies via FAX or e-mail.
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  • DRP-AZ
    Mark Christian for TEH WIN.

    A licensee is not required to provide a copy of his license to a non-licensee for any reason. A licensee who is the SHIPPING FFL, does not need to provide one to the RECEIVING FFL either, although it is customary to do so.
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  • tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by DRP-AZ
    Mark Christian for TEH WIN.

    A licensee is not required to provide a copy of his license to a non-licensee for any reason. A licensee who is the SHIPPING FFL, does not need to provide one to the RECEIVING FFL either, although it is customary to do so.


    That is totally incorrect. Class 01 FFL to Class 01 FFL by FEDERAL law requires that copies of licenses are exchanged. Depending on the BATFE auditor, your license could be revoked, and/or a healthy fine administered.

    Best

    EDIT 1

    DRP-AZ,

    I stand corrected as to what the book says. You are correct on terminology as what the book tells us. However, this is open to interpretation by the local branch offices of the BATFE. I know a couple FFL's who got their butt reamed as they did not think because a misunderstanding, and only using the transforee's license number on EZ check, and sending the firearm before they actually had a copy of the license. A lot of us believe in overkill and a FFL each way to be sure too.

    I am thinking you have a real egotistical infarction, and really don't have any idea what our moderator was saying. It would be kinda nice to keep someone with your knowledge base around for a bit. You might have 20 years in this biz, but you are not the only one, nor the one with the most seniority in business. So please keep that in mind that you most like don't "know-it-all", as contrary to us here.
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  • DRP-AZ
    WRONG!

    Only the RECEIVING FFL must provide a copy and only to another licensee to ensure that the SHIPPING FFL is sending TO another valid FFL.

    Call your local Field Office and ask. I went round and round with Clyde Armory over this very thing. Then, after a talk with my local Field Office, I had to call him and tell Mr. Clyde he was correct, and I was not.

    "Section 27 CFR 478.94 requires licensees to verify the identity and licensed status prior to transferring a firearm to a person who states they are licensed to receive it. "Verification shall be established by the transferee furnishing to the transferor a certified copy (Editors note: In Sept 2007 "certified copy" has been amended to include telefaxed or scanned/emailed copies bearing an original signature) of the transferee's license and by such other means as the transferor deems necessary..." This section does not apply to transfers between a licensee and an unlicensed person.

    So many know-it-alls, so little time.
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  • mark christian
    quote:Originally posted by DRP-AZ


    So many know-it-alls, so little time.


    You are right and I was wrong, only the receiving dealer need send a copy, although as mentioned it is customary to exchange licenses since additional business often follows the first transaction and having both FFLs on file speeds follow up transactions.

    Now then, your general attitude about being right does not sit well on this side of the fence. I suggest that you rethink your position or confine your posts to the General Discussion forum, where those types of comments are acceptable...They are not acceptable over here.
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  • DRP-AZ
    Sounds like hurt feelies to me.

    Pouting is so unbecoming. It's a characteristic of a large ego which cannot conceive of NOT being right. When corrected, resorts to veiled threats and implications that his power will be used, to "teach that darn smartass a lesson." (grawwr)

    Sadly, While I'd like to state that this is NOT the general mindset of the moderators here, I don't like to lie.

    "Yes, you were right, but I don't like the way you told me I was wrong! OFF with their heads!"

    Almost 20 years in this biz, and I get spanked from time to time because no one can know everything. I don't huff and puff and invite folks who have corrected me to never come into the shop again.

    I STILL send a copy with all of my shipments. Because it's customary and someone might want to ship something to me someday, and hopefully the recipient FFL might be like me, and keep a huge file box of FFL copies for future transfers out-of-state.
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  • mark christian
    quote:Originally posted by DRP-AZ
    Sounds like hurt feelies to me.

    Pouting is so unbecoming. It's a characteristic of a large ego which cannot conceive of NOT being right. When corrected, resorts to veiled threats and implications that his power will be used, to "teach that darn smartass a lesson." (grawwr)

    Sadly, While I'd like to state that this is NOT the general mindset of the moderators here, I don't like to lie.

    "Yes, you were right, but I don't like the way you told me I was wrong! OFF with their heads!"

    Almost 20 years in this biz, and I get spanked from time to time because no one can know everything. I don't huff and puff and invite folks who have corrected me to never come into the shop again.

    I STILL send a copy with all of my shipments. Because it's customary and someone might want to ship something to me someday, and hopefully the recipient FFL might be like me, and keep a huge file box of FFL copies for future transfers out-of-state.


    Every thing you stated was just fine, but you did not need to post script, that was uncalled for. All I am saying is that on this side of the forums we play the game much differently than they do over in GD or Politics. Expert advice here is always welcome, that is why this forum exists, and we all try to play together nicely over here. If this thread gets locked it will be by another moderator and not by me.
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  • sandwarrior
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    The regulations do not mandate that a dealer provide a copy of his license to a non licensee, but he does have to demonstrate that he holds a valid FFL. This can be accomplished by giving you his FFL number and having you verify the validity of his license using he ATF's FFL EZ-Check system. Licensees, both parties being dealers, by regulation must exchange valid copies of the FFLs and this can be done by mailing hard copies or by sending copies via FAX or e-mail.


    According to the regs...you are correct. So is a No Sale. I won't ship a gun without one.
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  • Spider7115
    So, if the shipping dealer doesn't include a copy of his FFL, how does the transferee prove he received the firearm from a licensed FFL dealer if audited? In NY State, dealers can not accept shipments from non-licensees. I know my dealer will not accept a firearm without a signed copy of the shipper's FFL to cover his butt.
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  • mark christian
    quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
    So, if the shipping dealer doesn't include a copy of his FFL, how does the transferee prove he received the firearm from a licensed FFL dealer if audited? In NY State, dealers can not accept shipments from non-licensees. I know my dealer will not accept a firearm without a signed copy of the shipper's FFL to cover his butt.


    He can request a copy be sent along or refuse to do the transer unless he receives a signed FFL. Once again, no matter what the regulations may say, there is nothing that prohibits a dealer from setting his own rules and asking for more documentation than the regulations require. This is the same reason that so many dealers won't accept guns from non a licensee; they simply don't want to and there is nothing that can be done about it. If the buyer on the receiving end of the transaction states that he won't accept a firearm from another dealer without getting a certified copy of the sellers FFL then that is his choice tossing up the regulation won't be likely to change his mind. Keep in mind that the Gun Control Act of 1968 only sets minimum standards for the commerce in firearms, a licensee can have much tougher standards if they feel the need and in today's political climate most do.
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  • coachmb
    UPS asks to see a copy of FFL Licensee that i'm shipping rifle to and My Question was from Private Party to FFL Dealer. I sold a rifle on GB and the Receivcing dealer will not get me a copy so I can ship rifle. So I'm sending rifle from my dealer to buys dealer and he picked up the fees for the tranfer.

    Thanks everyone for the info
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  • nmyers
    coachmb, I'm glad you got a satisfactory resolution to your problem. Some buyers are not as understanding or flexible.

    As for the question of what the sending dealer is required to do, the minimum standard is the ATF Bound Book record. In the Receipt column, he must enter Date and Name and address or name & license No. A wise dealer would want to be sure that he is entering accurate information. If the sending dealer doesn't include a copy of his FFL, then the receiving dealer must enter a name & address; absent an FFL copy, he would be smart to request a copy of the sending dealer's drivers license, just as he would ask for that of a store "walk in" selling a gun.

    Regardless, dealers are free to set their own rules, & others must either accept them or take their business elsewhere.

    Neal
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  • rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by coachmb
    UPS asks to see a copy of FFL Licensee that i'm shipping rifle to and My Question was from Private Party to FFL Dealer. I sold a rifle on GB and the Receivcing dealer will not get me a copy so I can ship rifle. So I'm sending rifle from my dealer to buys dealer and he picked up the fees for the tranfer.

    Thanks everyone for the info


    I had the exact same problem with FedEx. When I told them I was shipping a handgun priority overnight per their regulations. They wanted to see the FFL license of the dealer I was sending it to.

    Thats what burns me about these guys who try to tell me all I need is their license number, not the actual FFL document. What are you supposed to tell FedEx when they want to see the actual FFL.
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