Colt Diamondback Ejector "new" vs. "old"?
I have a Diamondback in 22lr. Jack Huntington in Calif says that he can ream out a second 22lr cylinder to 22WRM and fit it to the gun. He said that he may have to open up the forcing cone slightly to reduce excessive pressure that the larger 22WMR may create, even though it has a supported rim type cylinder. I just need to get the parts. The gun was made in the second to the last year of production ('78 I believe). I have a second cylinder, a crane, the ratchet and bushing. Now all I need is the ejector rod and spring. Now as I look on Numrich gunparts, I see that there is a "new" and "old" style cylinder, ejector, and crane. I believe the other parts that I have are "new" style. No one seems to be able to tell me how to differentiate or what the differences are. (Not Colt, not Numrich). Can someone tell me how to tell them apart, can new and old be "mixed", what would a '78 Diamonback use? Also, I heard that all Diamondback bbls were .224", does anyone know if this is true? Thanks
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Hello o3kilo,
Welcome to the forums here on GunBroker.
I would assume that since your gun was made in the "second to last year of production", that it would constitute the newer parts. I am not sure on the bore diameter, but most revolver maker's use the standard 0.224" size anyway if I am not mistaken.0 -
Thanks for the reply tsr. There are some parts online for sale, which the seller does not know if they are "new" or "old" style. Can anyone tell me how to differentiate the two ejector rods? If I cannot determine whether they are new or old, then I guess I will just "bite the bullet" and buy them, then hope for the best. Thanks again for your help. 0 -
If you get the work done, repost here and let us know how it went. This was something I was actually thinking about doing several years ago. 0 -
A local gunsmith has recommended against trying this, due to the fact that he does not believe a 22lr bbl should be used in firing 22WRM's. However Jack Huntington has said he's done these before and has not had a problem. He said, as referenced above, that sometimes he has needed to open up the forcing cone slightly, which seems to mitigate overly high pressures which are sometimes developed w/ the new 22WRM cylinder. I asked him if this results in less accurate 22lr groups, and he said that this has not been his experience. I'm kinda excited about this project, although (as usually happens) it is becoming far more complicated than I expected. I guess that's part of the fun of it. Any help or recommendations out there would be appreciated. 0 -
Try and fit your new parts onto your existing frame/crane. That will tell you if you have the new or old setup. My gut tells me you have the late variant of the Diamondback. Now..
Item one:
S&W would allow only production of .22LR chambering for their centerfire magnum .22's.
Reason: .22LR and .22 Centerfire Remington Magnum (22 'Jet') are of similar bore dimensions. The .22 rimfire magnum (called WMR, I think) requires a larger bore.
Item two: Gunsmith will alter the gun's dimensions (forcing cone) to fire the .22 Mag's. You can't change that back when you wish to return to the .22LR. It's not a true interchangeability when the gun is permanently altered to suit one of the two cartridges.
Notwithstanding the gunsmith you've mentioned, the technician at the service window at Roosevelt Avenue (S&W factory) told me face-to-face they wouldn't do it..for reasons cited above.
Opinion: I'd pass. Best, Joe0 -
Joe:
Thanks for the input. One of the earlier forum threads I found on GB said that he believed that all 22 bbls on the Colt revolvers were .224", but that the only way to tell was to slug the bbl. If it was .224", then that would solve that particular problem. Another GB forum thread mentioned that he thought the same thing, and that was why he felt the Diamondback was generally not as accurate as the S&W's.
The more I hear, the more I think that this is maybe not the best course of action. However, I guess that to slug the bbl would be easy enough...follow it out to that end.
Anyone else out there who could add to this information (and confuse me even more)? I would be most appreciative.
Thanks for your service Doc, we Jarheads really appreciate what our Corpsmen did for us. Chris0 -
Thanks to all that responded. I have had the work done.
In order to do this and make the "switch" from 22 LR to 22 WMR relatively easy, I needed the following parts: an extra 22 LR cylinder, ratchet, ejector rod (this was the "new" style, straight with the end being knurled, but no separate rod head), cylinder bushing, ejector rod spring ( a "long" spring is required with all bbl lengths except the 2"), crane and a small nut which goes on the ejector rod at the end closest to the ratchet. These parts are all listed on the Colt schematic EXCEPT the small nut for the ejector rod. It is listed nowhere that I have seen, even on gun parts sites such as Numrich???
It took me several months to collect all the pieces and parts that I needed, as they are getting more and more difficult to find. Once I got them all together, I sent them out to Jack Huntington in California (a great smith, but his website and email are awful, so just call him at his shop, he was always more than willing to talk w/ me as I thought about this project). He actually machined the bushing in his shop, and he was able to find this ejector rod nut that I didn't even know existed.
It took about a month and about $200 (above the cost of the parts which totaled a little over $250). Jack said that when he measured the bbl, it tapered from .222" to .223". Sort of between the mag and the LR. He fitted the crane to my gun, timed the cylinder, then he reamed the chambers to the 22 WRM and opened up the recesses for the larger 22 WRM rims. Apparently, because of the larger bore, no relief or alteration on the original bbl, forcing cone or gun was required, (thereby preserving any original collector's value to the gun itself, although it is in great shape, maybe 96-98%, it is not mint, it is a shooter). I got it back and shot it last nite.
At 20 yds and w/ just a quick sandbag rest, I shot 6 shots of each of 5 types of LR ammo. As you would expect, they varied widely, the best group was w/ PMC Target and shot a group of about 1 1/4" (5 of those shots cold be covered w/ a quarter!). This was just a quick test, and I am not all that good. I was VERY pleased w/ this performance. I will of course continue to try different ammo types and take more time w/ my shooting. I had Winchester and CCI 22 WRM ammo only. The CCI dropped easily into the chambers, the Winchester a little more snuggly. The CCI had more oomph, but the Win shot a group half the size...maybe about 1 1/2". I will try other ammo, I hear good things about the Federal.
One thing I did find was that the gun would not reliably fire all the 22 WRM rounds. The Winchester seemed to be less reliable than the CCI, harder brass I guess. When I got back home I found a note in the packing from Huntington. It said that because the 22 WRM brass is so much tougher, the double action was quite unreliable, but single action worked. I found that even w/ single action, the Win was not reliable. It has been my experience that Fed brass in relatively soft, and their 22 LR ammo is the most reliable ammo in the "affordable" category. If this holds true for their Mag stuff, and it is as accurate as I have been told, then this could be a win-win situation. Jack also cautioned against "hyper-velocity" 22 WRM ammo...I guess I should have read the directions first.
Well, I spent too much on the gun, (but it was the 22 that I've wanted since I started collecting as a kid...always too expensive), probably spent too much money and time searching for all the parts and the gunsmith work was reasonable and all I could ask for. But...now I have my Diamondback w/ both 22 LR and a 22WRM cylinders, with no alteration to the original gun, in a very unique and interesting package. And this was a fun project that kept me out of the bars and away from wild women for a few months.
If you all have any other questions, please post them and I will try to answer as best I can.0 -
Thank you very much for the follow-up. It means a lot, as we get many questions, and answer them, then nothing!!
Now, since you asked, I have a few questions:
How does the finish on the new cylinder/crane match up with the original blue? Any chance for pictures?
Thanks again for responding. Best, Joe0 -
I can try to get some pics of the project, but it may take a little work on my part to try and figure out how to attach and include them on the forum...I'm not so good w/ the computer. I'll get my wife or kids to help.
The finish match is pretty good, that "mile deep" Colt blue is amazing. Fortunately, no refinishing of the extra cylinder was needed and the original wasn't too bad.
My biggest issue is that now with the 22 "mag"...this is a new caliber for me. I had been trying to consolidate my collection to a total of about a dozen rifle and pistol calibers, and the 22 WRM was not one of them.
I guess I'll just have to get a few more guns in that caliber so that the Colt doesn't feel lonely! I'm already thinking about a Ruger Single Six, a CZ bolt gun in 22WRM and I have taken an interest in the "new" Kel-tec 30 round auto loader pistol in 22 mag. I know that this is really a re-do of the Grendel, but I missed it the first time around. What a dilema I am in! Any other recommendations?
Thanks again for all your input.0 -
I had similar problems with .22 Mag ammo, years back. I went the same route by using Federal only. It was the only .22 Mag ammo that was reliable in a High Standard derringer, that I carried as a bug. At the time they made various bullet weights from 30 to 50 grains, the 30 grainers were screamers, but the 50's had a lot better penetration. Since I had doubts that any of them would expand after being fired from the 1 1/2" barrel of the derringer, I used the 50's with the end of the bullet formed into a flat wadcutter profile. 0
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