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When a Vet Sells His 1911....

mljackso
I have gotten to know a WWII veteran well. He is almost 88 years old. He flew a P-38 in N. Africa/Italy in 1943. He finished the war an Ace, as a highly rated fighter pilot in the 12th Air Force.

He wants to sell his service pistol to me, and I want to buy it. It has serial number about 860000, indicating manufacture by Colt in 1942. He says it was issued to him in April 1943. It accompanied him on more than 50 combat missions. He has had it for almost 70 years now.

I am willing to pay a premium for the pistol, knowing it has identifiable history, and he is eager to find a good home for it - i.e. someone who appreciates it.

The problem is that he is afraid to sell it for fear of breaking any Military/Government restrictions that might apply, since it is marked "Government Property."

Can you comment on any OFFICIAL government policy in this regard?

I feel this should not be a concern to him. I have told him former military 1911s and 1911A1s are sold frequently online and in gun shows/shops, and that I do not think any restrictions apply. But he is still concerned.

Can you help me to help put his fears to rest?
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Comments

13 comments

Date Votes
  • US Military Guy
    If his concern is that it is marked "US Property" and therefore belongs to the US government, you might ask him if his problem is selling US property or being in possession of US property.

    In other words, he has a problem selling "stolen" property, but not possessing "stolen" property? (I know nobody used the term "stolen", but me. I assume that is his issue because he believes the "US Property" markings indicates it belongs to the US government.)
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  • rufe-snow
    Have the local cop shop run the s.n. through the NCIS, if it doesn't come up as hot your good to go. If it does show up as stolen property belonging to uncle, they will confiscate it.
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  • givette
    No direct answer, but..
    The M1911 has to have had a Federal Stock Number. Perhaps lookup on the auction side for 'M1911's in original boxes', and note the stock number placed on the box. Now..

    See if you can find a pub that 'excessed/surplused-disposed' the M1911 by using the stock number, and show it to your friend. Best I could do. Joe

    Joe, they haven't used those old Federal Stock Numbers for years...How old are you? For the record, the 1911A1 Government uses stock number NSN 1005-00-726-5655
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  • rhmc24
    As far as the US Govt is concerned his .45 went the same way as his P-38 - to oblivion. Maybe taking is on a 'custody receipt' would appeal to him. It worked for me. I was an exec in major corp and wanted a piece of equipment from one of out vendors. I couldn't accept a gift and the couldn't give it but they could offer it on a 'custody receipt'.
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  • the yooper
    What's the US Government going to do - throw a 90 year-old WWII Air Force ace in jail for possessing govt property? [:D] I SERIOUSLY doubt it. And once you have it, how would anybody prove how/where you got it? Much ado about nothing IMO, but you have to honor the guy's concerns if you can't talk him through them.
    yooper
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  • fordsix
    do you know how many US property marked guns are out there..i would buy it in a heart beat..it has allready been wiped off the books of the guvermint
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  • perry shooter
    More then likely he forgot to turn this in when he left the service and he still thinks there is some record that the pistol was issue to him . The C.M.P./D.C.M. through the U.S. government sold thousands of 1911A1 pistols plus statute of limitations is Passed on any 1940's taking of Governmental Property .
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  • machine gun moran
    I believe the U.S. Government has no interest in it. When I was overseas I came into possession of captured weapons, and one of them was a WW2 1903A3 Springfield. I thought I would probably not be allowed to keep it, and I asked the First Shirt about it. He said to keep it, commenting that that stuff had been off the books since the end of WW2.

    WW2 ordnance of all types was left in foreign countries, dumped in the oceans, and simply written off, including millions of small arms. If your friend had a crate of them, I don't think anybody would care.
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  • mljackso
    quote:Originally posted by the yooper
    What's the US Government going to do - throw a 90 year-old WWII Air Force ace in jail for possessing govt property? [:D] I SERIOUSLY doubt it. And once you have it, how would anybody prove how/where you got it? Much ado about nothing IMO, but you have to honor the guy's concerns if you can't talk him through them.
    yooper


    This is exactly the issue. I have to somehow put his fears to rest.....
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  • dcinffxva
    There are literally millions of guns out there marked US Property. I can't recall of CMP sold them back in the day as well, but they still sell Garands, '03's etc.

    One thing I would ask the guy to do would be write a summary of his wartime service, including that he carried the pistol (by serial number) you would be getting.
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  • mljackso
    quote:Originally posted by dcinffxva
    There are literally millions of guns out there marked US Property. I can't recall of CMP sold them back in the day as well, but they still sell Garands, '03's etc.

    One thing I would ask the guy to do would be write a summary of his wartime service, including that he carried the pistol (by serial number) you would be getting.


    I have his war record. He is 100% legit. I have zero doubt he is who he says he is, and his record is all over the internet. The problem is probably that he should have turned in the pistol upon retirement and did not. That is the only explanation for his actions I can think of. He retired in 1964 from the USAF as a Lieutenant Colonel. That was almost 50 years ago!!! He should not worry!
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  • BigLoop22
    quote:Originally posted by mljackso
    quote:Originally posted by dcinffxva

    One thing I would ask the guy to do would be write a summary of his wartime service, including that he carried the pistol (by serial number) you would be getting.

    I have his war record. He is 100% legit. I have zero doubt he is who he says he is, and his record is all over the internet. The problem is probably that he should have turned in the pistol upon retirement and did not. That is the only explanation for his actions I can think of. He retired in 1964 from the USAF as a Lieutenant Colonel. That was almost 50 years ago!!! He should not worry!


    mljackso,

    I think that recording his history (and tying it to the 1911)would be more of a matter of provenance for the gun, than for legitimizing the legality of buying & owning the gun.[;)]
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  • mark christian
    70 years after teh fact no one from the DoD is looking for that pistol. In fact if the old vet felt guilty about taking it home with am and offered to send it tot he DoD they would have no clue as to why he was doing it. Go ahead and buy it.
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