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Bushnell 4200 Elite

stevecrea
I have a Bushnell 4200 Elite 4-16X40 scope on my CZ 452 in .17 HMR. I bought this scope new about three years ago, and it has been quite good for a moderately priced scope ($400).

Now, I am having trouble with this rifle grouping and holding zero. The zero seems to shift around some, and while this rifle and scope combination regularly would shoot 1 MOA at 100 yards, it now will do no better than maybe 1.5 or 2.0 MOA.

I cleaned the rifle thoroughly with Hoppe's Benchrest, and used a nylon brush, but no brass brush. As usual, I removed a lot of carbon, but there was no evidence of copper. I disassembled the rifle and checked what I could see, and nothing seemed amiss, and there were no loose screws.

I will check the crown (it has been recrowned once already, about two years ago, and now, this rifle has perhaps 6000 rounds through it).

I am wondering if the scope could be the culprit, and if anyone has a foolproof method of checking the scope, without sending it back.
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6 comments

Date Votes
  • hadjii
    That's easy. Switch out the scope with another scope that is known to repeat. If your groupings shrink back to what they were, then you have found the culprit. If they continue to be larger than what you consider to be normal, then the rifle would be suspect. All it's going to cost is a little time switching scopes and re-sighting.
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  • woodguru
    Just to qualify that i've played with a lot of .17's, I've had 7 or 8 including anschutz 1517 MPR with an Elite 4200 8-32x, 2 Ruger 77/17's with Clark and Shilen barrels, Savage, and Remington 504-T with an Elite 4200 6-24x.

    The rifles themselves are quirky and shoot best once they have a couple hundred shots through them without cleaning. Shooting two or three boxes of bullets through one changes the groups and they get better. Clean the rifle and the groups go to crap, box ot two in and the groups get better.

    A lot of people doing serious benchrest work have been finding rifles that like dirty barrels. It goes against a lot of .22-250 and .243 load development work for me.

    I would not question the 4200, they are a great scope and have a superb record for competitive adjustment/return reliability.

    I used Microlon in all of my .17hmr's, it tightened the groups and made a barrel that doesn't copper foul nearly as much.

    Another question for you, did you try different ammo or is the deterioration with all the same ammo? I have all the types I could get my hands on, 12 different ones, some shoot 2 to 3 inch groups while another has no problem with a 3/4" group. Every rifle likes different ones, the ones they don't won't hold 2 inches. My Anschutz hated CCI and Hornady, loved Remy and Win premiums and federal.

    Feel free to contact me on the .17's They are quirky but fun.
    [img][/img]P1010589.jpg
    504 .17hmr w/Nikon 6-18x side focus
    Anschutz 1517 MPR w/Elite 4200 8-32x
    Remington 504-T w/Elite 4200 6-24x
    Savage .17hmr w/Burris Signatuer Select 8-32x
    Remington 597 .17hmr w/Pentax 4.5-14x
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  • stevecrea
    Thanks, Woodguru:

    I have been using primarily Hornady 17 gr V-Maxes, plus other brands of 17 gr V-Maxes, because my rifle will not feed the 20 grain HPs because of a slight length difference or something.

    Let me ask your opinion: This rifle has a freefloated barrel, but the action is bedded on the wood. Is there a possibility that glass bedding the action and chamber area would help to improve it? I would tend to think this is more important with larger cartridges, but not the .17 HMR. But, what is your opinion?

    Thank you for the input.
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  • stevecrea
    quote:Originally posted by hadjii
    That's easy. Switch out the scope with another scope that is known to repeat. If your groupings shrink back to what they were, then you have found the culprit. If they continue to be larger than what you consider to be normal, then the rifle would be suspect. All it's going to cost is a little time switching scopes and re-sighting.


    Thanks, hadjii!

    I will give that a try if other remedies do not produce the results. I really doubt that it is the scope, but will try to rule out other possibilities first.
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  • woodguru
    quote:Originally posted by stevecrea
    Thanks, Woodguru:

    I have been using primarily Hornady 17 gr V-Maxes, plus other brands of 17 gr V-Maxes, because my rifle will not feed the 20 grain HPs because of a slight length difference or something.

    Let me ask your opinion: This rifle has a freefloated barrel, but the action is bedded on the wood. Is there a possibility that glass bedding the action and chamber area would help to improve it? I would tend to think this is more important with larger cartridges, but not the .17 HMR. But, what is your opinion?

    Thank you for the input.


    I wouldn't mess with anything until you try as many types of ammo as you can get your hands on, the difference between one and another would defy logic as to how you can't believe they are being shot from the same rifle. Most of my rifles did not do well with CCI or Hornady. Federal V-max was good as were the Winchester and Remington premiums. Sellier and Bellot is good and can be bought online very cheap.

    Also play with the torque you use to hold the action to the stock, I've had a lot of rifles that are sensitive to that. Loosen the screws or bolts and tighten them firmly snug but not cranked, shoot a few groups and snug them a little tighter and see if there is a difference. I've found a fair amount of rifles that do better with a very well controlled amount of torque. Whenever a rifle is showing variable grouping as you have described from one period to another I go to checking the torque before anything else excepting ammo itself.


    I'll also say again that I would shoot one or two hundred rounds and have great accuracy, would clean the rifle and the groups would be crap for 50 or more shots at which time the rifle would start settling in again. I have heard several people say they thought the rifles like 200 rounds worth of dirty, then they really start shooting tight at that point.
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  • stevecrea
    woodguru:

    Thank you for the input.

    Also, after speaking with a knowledgeable gunsmith that I have worked with for a few years, and I told him that this rifle probably had at least 6000 rounds through it, and perhaps 7000, he suggested that the barrel could be eroded enough to cause the deterioration in accuracy. If so, the dirty barrel concept might help this condition.

    However, now I am considering selling or trading it, because I just do not have a lot of patience and tolerance for erratic and finicky rifles. I have fussed with rifles with shot out barrels before, with loads, cleaning, bedding, crowning, etc., and you just end up being frustrated and out the money to have these things done, as well as out the time.

    Do anyone have any thoughts about how many rounds a 17 HMR would go before accuracy tapers off?
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