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Winchester 1892 FAKES

Rex Mahan
I have been reading in the Big Madis book about various models. On the first page of the 1892 section he mentions that Fakes were being made in foriegn countries. He states that Winchester changed the tang stamps to try to show patents and stop the copying. How do you know a fake especially if it is old? Is that true?
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Comments

11 comments

Date Votes
  • rufe-snow
    Bunch of them were made in Spain from the 1890's to the 1920's? Most common over here are the El Tigre replica. They ( El Tigre's ) were imported and sold as surplus by Interarms during the 50's/60's time frame. They were replicas not copies of the Winchester 92, i.e. the markings are different, also parts and workmanship were a lot cruder.
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  • Floyd58523
    These fakes or knock off rifles have a cult following of their own. They have moved up in price and are collectible.
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  • tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by Floyd58523
    These fakes or knock off rifles have a cult following of their own. They have moved up in price and are collectible.


    They are not collectable. They have moved up in price, and continue to be produced to this day by different companies. They see a lot of use in the cowboy action shooting scene.
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  • Rex Mahan
    Madis stated that some of the Fakes used the Winchester name ( atleast I think that is what he was saying). He did say that Winchester changed the stampings on the upper tang and added "Patented" to some because of the problem.

    Did some have Winchester on them?
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  • tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by Rex Mahan
    Madis stated that some of the Fakes used the Winchester name ( atleast I think that is what he was saying). He did say that Winchester changed the stampings on the upper tang and added "Patented" to some because of the problem.

    Did some have Winchester on them?


    One must not take the ramblings of Mr.Midas seriously. A good many statements in them are not factual, but theorized. A good for instance is his serialization vs. date of mfg. for some models. In otherwords, if they are not pictorial examples, don't rely on them.

    Best
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  • Rex Mahan
    Now Im really confused.
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  • aap2
    I bought an Interarms El Tigre 44-40 back when they imported them; no Winchester collector would confuse one with a real 1892. At first glance, they look similar, but the workmanship was crude, but they did shoot pretty well. I fired mine a lot with cast bullets and it was a good plinker. I'm not sure what Madis was meaning when he said "fake 1892's".
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  • tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by Rex Mahan
    Now Im really confused.


    Mr.Midas had some very bad errors in his books, mostly due to the pure lack of research. One must not take his books to be the holy grail, but he has some nice pictures.
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  • gearheaddad
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by Rex Mahan
    Now Im really confused.


    Mr.Midas had some very bad errors in his books, mostly due to the pure lack of research. One must not take his books to be the holy grail, but he has some nice pictures.
    Madis. Not Midas.
    Keep in mind Madis was doing research early on. Way before many of the others even thought about Winchester history. Although there are a number of inaccuracies in his books, he was one of the first to begin compiling records for publishing. There was no internet. There were no fax machines or cell phones. Winchester Records were probably not as complete or available as now. When old guns were researched prior to and including the 50's and 60's it was no where as easy as it is today. Usually a few collectors would carefully look something over and decide if it was factory or not. A long distance phone call was still a big deal. Now we have the Cody Museum and dedicated historians like Bert working to have all the records as complete and accurate as possible. In 10 years or so, it will probably be even easier to research Winchesters!
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  • Rex Mahan
    I believe Madis was an amazing reseacher. It would be hard to get everything correct even today. He must have had access to things no one else seems to have seen and may not even exist today. He didnt just do 94s, he did researach on so many winchesters, it must have taken much of his life. I do appreciate his gift.

    As for the Fakes, I believe he was refering to guns being made in the early 1900s for the 1892 fakes. I would assume others were facked as well?

    I do also appreciate Burt and Renneberg. It is very cool to have Burt so accessable and wanting to help further research.
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  • tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by Rex Mahan
    I believe Madis was an amazing reseacher. It would be hard to get everything correct even today. He must have had access to things no one else seems to have seen and may not even exist today. He didnt just do 94s, he did researach on so many winchesters, it must have taken much of his life. I do appreciate his gift.

    As for the Fakes, I believe he was refering to guns being made in the early 1900s for the 1892 fakes. I would assume others were facked as well?

    I do also appreciate Burt and Renneberg. It is very cool to have Burt so accessable and wanting to help further research.


    Bert has had the pleasure of talking with Mr.Madis...briefly. If you review the searches for previous topics you will see that George did not want to talk about his lack of research at all. Mr.Madis did not have the resources we have today...like the factory polishing room records. If he did, then his research really sucked.
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