QUESTIONS RE: .22rf ROUNDS
While collecting older .22rf boxes I ran across an interesting anomoly about some Remington hollow point rounds. They were loose rounds with no box to associate them with.
Though the brass case coloring was the same, and bullet shapes APPEAR identical, the coloring of the plating is distinctly different. One batch is copper-colored and the other is brass-colored. (?) Also, both cases have the same single cannelure around the lower part of the case.
Also, ALL rounds from both batches have the Rem headstamp. A large percentage of the headstamps - in BOTH batches - appear blurred from the stamping machine having a filled die (the round on right in this photo).
As in coin collecting, do collectors of individual ammo rounds seek this type of oddity?
Not having collected individuals, I haven't a clue what those collectors look for. Anyone out there know? Thanks in advance for any help.
Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei45
Though the brass case coloring was the same, and bullet shapes APPEAR identical, the coloring of the plating is distinctly different. One batch is copper-colored and the other is brass-colored. (?) Also, both cases have the same single cannelure around the lower part of the case.
Also, ALL rounds from both batches have the Rem headstamp. A large percentage of the headstamps - in BOTH batches - appear blurred from the stamping machine having a filled die (the round on right in this photo).
As in coin collecting, do collectors of individual ammo rounds seek this type of oddity?
Not having collected individuals, I haven't a clue what those collectors look for. Anyone out there know? Thanks in advance for any help.
Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei45
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I recall large quantities of both bullets over the years, though I can't put approximate dates on them and don't remember what changes in name might have differentiated one from the other.
My best guess is that there's nothing rare in either and no collector value in single rounds. Could be wrong. Others will be along soon; hopefully some ammo collectors. Seems to me that most collectors look for full boxes; and in pristine condition at that.
p.s. Great photo's, by the way!0 -
Hi,
If your question means: Do cartridge collectors want specimens with headstamp defects like coin collectors want coinage with defects like double strikes or light or broken die strikes? The answer is "No".
I do not know of any cartridge which is desired strictly because of a defect in the headstamp from a broken die or bunter.
There is demand for rare (meaning little more than one or two known specimens) or scarce (meaning perhaps a dozen or so known specimens), but there is nothing I am aware which is desired in cartridges for a badly struck headstamp.
An example may be the 6mm Lee Navy or 6mm USN. The 6mm Lee Navy is a rimless cartridge and offspring of the 236 Lee Navy, which is a rimmed cartridge of approximately the same dimensions. The 6mm Lee Navy was produced immediately after the 236 Lee Navy and a few very early 6mm Lee Navy cartridges used the 236 Navy rimmed case. These cartridges are oddities not because of the incorrect headstamp, but because there are only a few known specimens. The same would be true for "SS" headstamped 7.92x57mm cartridges, but which also has historical significance.
In cartridge collecting, there are numerous examples of headstamps from bad dies and bunters and light or badly struck headstamps. Generally, if the cartridge was mass-produced or are just old there isn't any premium attached to their value. What makes a cartridge valuable is scarcity and/or historical significance.
Regards,
Heavyiron0 -
Thanks, heavyiron. Exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. Yes, I'm aware of the headstmps considered as "rare" due to limited production. A good example in the .22rf world are the few surviving rounds of CIL/Dominion .22 gallery shorts which I understand had frangible bullets, were an experimental deal with a west coast (BC) shooting gallery up in Canada.
Instead of their normal D headstamp they did the D with a dot inside it, and EVERYONE up there was constantly looking them. I was told the boxes were labeled as Bang-A-Deer. I've heard of other US brands using that label on their boxes.
When CIL was bought out by iVi that old headstamp was resurrected and used on their .22rf ammo. Very quickly iVi sold out to a US military ammo maker and I'm told there are no .22s on the shelves up there which are made in Canada. All imported stuff.
So, having that unique headstamp, and used again on a very limited run of ammo, it should make those relatively few boxes of iVi .22s even more desireable.
Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei450 -
Sorry, RCrosby, but somehow I missed your reply - no email notice, etc.. Thanks for the feedback.
Yes, as a box collector I look for the FULL, pristine condition boxes, older the better. However, I also will buy partially full if I don't have that particular specimen, hoping to upgrade it at with a later find, then recoup some of my cost by selling the first (partial) one to another collector.
Nor did I expect there to be a market for such errors as pictured, but never having delved into INDIVIDUAL rounds, I thought I'd better ask before taking something for granted. My interest in even the boxes is a secondary one. My main thrust is in collecting older and unusual .22rf single-shot firearms made in US and Canada.
The boxes started out as simply props to use when photographing my guns, they add some depth to my old-timers.
Thanks again.
Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei450
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