AR-15 Pistol
I did a search on this topic in the forum and all the info was at least two years old. Looking for some up to date info.
I am looking to put together an AR-15 pistol. How do I go about obtaining a "pistol" lower receiver?
I know that the receiver can never have been a rifle. Many AR parts suppliers sell new AR receivers, WITHOUT stocks but with the trigger and hammer and all the internal parts. Could I buy one of those and have it shipped to my FFL, then register it as a pistol? Then, all it would need is a pistol buffer tube and the upper put on it and it is ready to shoot.
Also, I have no interest in making an SBR (short barreled rifle) and having to jump through all the legal hoops of dealing with the ATF.
When does the designation of pistol vs. rifle happen for a stockless lower? At the manufacturer or when I pick it up from my FFL and fill out the paperwork?
Also, I am a Florida resident.
Thanks in advance for you help!
I am looking to put together an AR-15 pistol. How do I go about obtaining a "pistol" lower receiver?
I know that the receiver can never have been a rifle. Many AR parts suppliers sell new AR receivers, WITHOUT stocks but with the trigger and hammer and all the internal parts. Could I buy one of those and have it shipped to my FFL, then register it as a pistol? Then, all it would need is a pistol buffer tube and the upper put on it and it is ready to shoot.
Also, I have no interest in making an SBR (short barreled rifle) and having to jump through all the legal hoops of dealing with the ATF.
When does the designation of pistol vs. rifle happen for a stockless lower? At the manufacturer or when I pick it up from my FFL and fill out the paperwork?
Also, I am a Florida resident.
Thanks in advance for you help!
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I know the basic rules about starting w/ a virgin lower receiver and have a ATF letter of clarification to that effect. In the past I have started w/ a bare receiver then as time & money permits, add the lower kit & then an upper. This time I have purchased some receivers that are factory assembled as complete lowers & the stock installed. Are they disqualified from becoming a pistol even they have never been fully assembled as either?
Thanks guys for keeping old Jeff out of jail!0 -
If it has EVER had a stock on it then it is LEGALLY a rifle. How were they transfered on the 4473, handgun, long gun or receiver? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by cbxjeff
I know the basic rules about starting w/ a virgin lower receiver and have a ATF letter of clarification to that effect. In the past I have started w/ a bare receiver then as time & money permits, add the lower kit & then an upper. This time I have purchased some receivers that are factory assembled as complete lowers & the stock installed. Are they disqualified from becoming a pistol even they have never been fully assembled as either?
Thanks guys for keeping old Jeff out of jail!
ATF just put out info that says a pistol gripped shotgun and a lower with a buttstock (but no upper) are not long guns - there is a posting elsewhere on GB that covers the subject. I think it's in the general discussion forum.
Honestly, at this point I don't know what the answer is regarding AR lowers with a buttstock - common sense says they are rifles, but common sense doesn't quite work with ATF.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dfletcher
quote:Originally posted by cbxjeff
I know the basic rules about starting w/ a virgin lower receiver and have a ATF letter of clarification to that effect. In the past I have started w/ a bare receiver then as time & money permits, add the lower kit & then an upper. This time I have purchased some receivers that are factory assembled as complete lowers & the stock installed. Are they disqualified from becoming a pistol even they have never been fully assembled as either?
Thanks guys for keeping old Jeff out of jail!
ATF just put out info that says a pistol gripped shotgun and a lower with a buttstock (but no upper) are not long guns - there is a posting elsewhere on GB that covers the subject. I think it's in the general discussion forum.
Honestly, at this point I don't know what the answer is regarding AR lowers with a buttstock - common sense says they are rifles, but common sense doesn't quite work with ATF.
That is easy to answer.
(19) "Shotgun" means a weapon with one or more barrels, designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
(14) "Rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.
(13) "Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.
See the parts in red. The lower CBX is talking about IS designed to be fire from the shoulder ie rifle.
The shotguns you are talking about are not "shotguns" because they are not designed to be fired from the shoulder. I am not sure what the pistol grip shotguns would be since they are not designed to be fired by a single hand either.
I am not sure what you mean on this one "a lower with a buttstock (but no upper)" I am going to assume you mean an AR. I have not seen this one so I am not sure what you are referencing.0 -
Jeff, you can't make those receivers into a pistol since they already have a butt stock. 0 -
Thanks for the replies guys. I was afraid this would be the verdict. That's OK, I'll use a 22LR upper on one. I did that a year or two ago and how sweet that is - you can use an Ace folding stock. Let's face it, the AR buffer tube make a ugly pistol. Once again, thanks - I'm much to old to go to the farm! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by cbxjeff
Thanks for the replies guys. I was afraid this would be the verdict. That's OK, I'll use a 22LR upper on one. I did that a year or two ago and how sweet that is - you can use an Ace folding stock. Let's face it, the AR buffer tube make a ugly pistol. Once again, thanks - I'm much to old to go to the farm!
If you want a tubless AR pistol, check out the Olympic Arms OA93.
Also may want to look into converting to a piston system and doing the back end like the FAL paratrooper model.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
quote:Originally posted by dfletcher
quote:Originally posted by cbxjeff
I know the basic rules about starting w/ a virgin lower receiver and have a ATF letter of clarification to that effect. In the past I have started w/ a bare receiver then as time & money permits, add the lower kit & then an upper. This time I have purchased some receivers that are factory assembled as complete lowers & the stock installed. Are they disqualified from becoming a pistol even they have never been fully assembled as either?
Thanks guys for keeping old Jeff out of jail!
ATF just put out info that says a pistol gripped shotgun and a lower with a buttstock (but no upper) are not long guns - there is a posting elsewhere on GB that covers the subject. I think it's in the general discussion forum.
Honestly, at this point I don't know what the answer is regarding AR lowers with a buttstock - common sense says they are rifles, but common sense doesn't quite work with ATF.
That is easy to answer.
(19) "Shotgun" means a weapon with one or more barrels, designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
(14) "Rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.
(13) "Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.
See the parts in red. The lower CBX is talking about IS designed to be fire from the shoulder ie rifle.
The shotguns you are talking about are not "shotguns" because they are not designed to be fired from the shoulder. I am not sure what the pistol grip shotguns would be since they are not designed to be fired by a single hand either.
I am not sure what you mean on this one "a lower with a buttstock (but no upper)" I am going to assume you mean an AR. I have not seen this one so I am not sure what you are referencing.
Correct, was referencing the AR. Over at the Calguns site one of the guys is posting a conversation with ATF (and is attempting to get documentation) that the AR isn't considered a rifle until a greater than 16" barrel (upper) is attached. The fellow posting has a pretty good track record, I've always found him to be accurate and informed.
Stepping away from the AR platform, let's use a Remington 700 stripped receiver. You buy the virgin receiver, without a barrel, and drop it into a rifle stock. From what I'm reading, ATF may assert it doesn't become a rifle until a greater than 16" barrel is attached.
But I agree, what's currently written is "shoulder stock = long gun".0
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